HappyTrails2U2
Atlanta, GA
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Since I ordered the Sherline tongue scales the other day it has me wondering about weights. Let's take for instance the weights on my TT which are 6,273 lbs for the dry weight and 8,633 lbs for the GVWR with a tongue weight of 880 lbs. The specs say nothing about the tongue weight needing to go up proportionately as the trailer is fully loaded. Shouldn't the tongue weight be more when the trailer is fully loaded than it is when it's dry? Or by keeping the tongue weight at 880 lbs regardless of how much weight is loaded in the trailer does that mean the load will automatically be distributed correctly over the axles due to the distance of the axles from the front of the trailer being designed to be the pivot point? If not then the tongue weight is going to have to go up in order to distribute the weight equally it would seem to me. I'm probably not explaining what I'm trying to say very well but I don't know how else to put it. Sorry about that.
Greg
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tomdrobin
Perry, MI
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The change in tounge weight as you go from unloaded to fully loaded will depend on where the cargo weight is. Although I wouldn't recommend it, if you put all the cargo weight behind the axles, the weight on the tounge would actually go down. Generally it's better to have more weight on the tounge for better handling.
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skipnchar
Google Kansas USA
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The vast majority of trailers will have heavier tongue when loaded but it's not impossible to actually be lighter. It all depends on where the weight is carried. Anything added forward of the axles will increase tongue weight and aft from the axles will reduce it. It is preferable that the tongue weight remain similar in percentage so towing characteristics don't change with more or less load.
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HappyTrails2U2
Atlanta, GA
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tomdrobin wrote: if you put all the cargo weight behind the axles, the weight on the tounge would actually go down. Generally it's better to have more weight on the tounge for better handling.
Yes I'm aware of that but the question is...is it OK to keep the tongue weight at 880 pounds no matter what the weight is on the trailer as long as the gross weight is not surpassed.
It would be possible to keep the tongue weight at 880 pounds even if you had 20,000 pounds on the trailer as long as it's equally distributed over the axles. I'm just wondering if that's what the manufacture means when they give just one number for the tongue weight? They don't say increase the tongue weight as the load goes up they just indicate 880 lbs to be the weight which makes me believe they don't care how much is loaded at the rear as long as you keep 880 lbs on the tongue. I mean it looks to me like you couldn't over load the rear if you keep the required 880 lbs on the tongue otherwise the tongue weight is going to get lighter with an overloaded rear end.
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TURK2500
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HappyTrails2U2 wrote:snip....is it OK to keep the tongue weight at 880 pounds no matter what the weight is on the trailer as long as the gross weight is not surpassed...snip
As a general rule the "loaded" TT tongue weight should be 10%-15% of the "loaded" TT weight. IMO the longer the TT, the closer to 15% would be desirable.
Turk2500
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tomdrobin
Perry, MI
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TURK2500 wrote:HappyTrails2U2 wrote:snip....is it OK to keep the tongue weight at 880 pounds no matter what the weight is on the trailer as long as the gross weight is not surpassed...snip
As a general rule the "loaded" TT tongue weight should be 10%-15% of the "loaded" TT weight. IMO the longer the TT, the closer to 15% would be desirable.
Turk2500
Yes, I would agree I think the 880 lbs isn't a recommended number to maintain, it's just the unloaded spec. Unless you've got limitations on your tow vehicle that won't allow it, more on the tounge, up to 15% makes for better handling. So, if you have loaded your TT to the GVWR of 8633 lbs, the 880 lbs would put you just over 10%. I would try and load to get around 1000 lbs on the tounge (12%).
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HappyTrails2U2
Atlanta, GA
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TURK2500 wrote:As a general rule the "loaded" TT tongue weight should be 10%-15% of the "loaded" TT weight. IMO the longer the TT, the closer to 15% would be desirable.
Well lets see, 10% of my gross weight of 8,633 lbs is 863.3 lbs which is less than the 880 lbs the manufacture calls for. So I see the manufacture took this into consideration and figured on the high side for the dry tongue weight. So like I said before if I keep the tongue weight at 880 pounds then there won't be a problem at any weight within the loaded specifications. Thanks that answers my question I do believe.
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SteveRankin
Sequim, WA
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HappyTrails2U2 wrote:tomdrobin wrote: if you put all the cargo weight behind the axles, the weight on the tounge would actually go down. Generally it's better to have more weight on the tounge for better handling.
Yes I'm aware of that but the question is...is it OK to keep the tongue weight at 880 pounds no matter what the weight is on the trailer as long as the gross weight is not surpassed.
It would be possible to keep the tongue weight at 880 pounds even if you had 20,000 pounds on the trailer as long as it's equally distributed over the axles. I'm just wondering if that's what the manufacture means when they give just one number for the tongue weight? They don't say increase the tongue weight as the load goes up they just indicate 880 lbs to be the weight which makes me believe they don't care how much is loaded at the rear as long as you keep 880 lbs on the tongue. I mean it looks to me like you couldn't over load the rear if you keep the required 880 lbs on the tongue otherwise the tongue weight is going to get lighter with an overloaded rear end.
NO! While it may be possible to load the trailer such that the tongue weight remained at 880#, the trailer would handle like crap, or worse.
The recommended MINIMUM tongue weight is 12%. After owning a half-dozen TT's we've found that all of them had 15% tongue weight when properly loaded. Sometimes it would go as high as 17% or down to 14% under an unusual loading condition. This summer we carried over a ton of spares (yes, over 2,000#) for our Arctic trip. Much of that went under the bed (rear) and in a storage box on the back of the TT. Result? Our tongue weight varied from 10.8% to 11.2% during the trip (we weigh our rig very frequently). Since we spent so much time going slow (under 25 MPH) on primitive roads, the poor handling wasn't a big problem. But on the few occasions we got up to around 50-60 MPH . . . not fun.
In other words, forget empty weight 'cause you'll never tow it like that. Take 15% of GVWR & you'll have about 1,300# tongue weight when properly loaded.
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chilipyro
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The only measurements that manufacturers take into consideration are the ones that the law indicates. By law, they have to tell you what the limitations of the trailer are, but there is no law on reporting an ideal tongue weight for a fully loaded trailer. In fact, the 10%-15% range is something you will find in camping or towing forums, but you will not find it in many manuals provided by manufactures. When I have seen recommended tongue weight percentages in trailer or auto manuals, it has been in the 8%-10% range. It is in their best interest to quote figures that make it look like you can tow a lot, so that is what they do. However, in their defence, tongue weight is one of many characteristics that affect the handling and ride comfort while towing - including (but not limited to) trailer length, tow vehical suspension, tow vehical wheel base, trailer axle distance from hitch, and sway control abilities of your hitch.
The great thing about owning a tongue weight scale (I own a Sherline too), is that you can check your tonge weight after you have packed for your trip. That's good for making sure you know the weight you are puting on the hitch receiver and adding to your tow vehicle's payload. But, it doesn't help you to see if your tongue weight ratio is in the ideal range until you also hit the truck scales. In answer to your question, you can't just aim for the same tongue weight each time - unless you have packed the same amount of stuff each time. In general though, if you aim for higher weight on the tongue, and use the gauge to make sure you are not exceeding the limits of your hitch and tow vehicle, you'll have a better ride.
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HappyTrails2U2
Atlanta, GA
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SteveRankin wrote:
NO! While it may be possible to load the trailer such that the tongue weight remained at 880#, the trailer would handle like crap, or worse.
The recommended MINIMUM tongue weight is 12%. After owning a half-dozen TT's we've found that all of them had 15% tongue weight when properly loaded.
What we've got here is failure to communicate. I always did like that line from the movie Cool Hand Luke.
http://www.entertonement.com/clips/sfjblcmdph--What-we've-got-here-is-failure-to-communicateCool-Hand-Luke-Captain-Strother-Martin-Road-Prison-36-
I'm having trouble explaining what I'm trying to say, I think. I'm saying the trailer tongue weight has already be calculated for the max load. 880 lbs IS a little over 10% of the GVWR 8633 so there's no need to go up with the tongue weight unless you intend to overload the trailer from what the manufactures GVWR is. Wheeeew I think I said it right that time.
Greg
* This post was
edited 11/28/09 02:08pm by HappyTrails2U2 *
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