sirdrakejr
Las Vegas, Nevada
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This thread is about LIPPERT! It is NOT about welding or how to weld. Get on topic or I close this one too.
Frank
RV.net blog
For those of you looking for expert advice, here ya go!
Frank
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charlan
On. ca
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richfaa wrote:"bad wield... Nice picture ..but what is it. Is it a frame? part of a frame??How did it break? who wielded it. It looks like it was wielded and broke again????
We know little about welding so we goggled around to learn.. " If it looks like garbage it probably is " was a common comment. There are many variables to doing good welds.Also it takes a expert to visually determine a bad weld as well as various testing. I would feel better if any person who posted about bad welds was qualified to say that.
The picture is the back side of this picture 
I was told by a master welder that the flange that holds king pin hitch was over welded and weakened the beam.
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richfaa
Ohio
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"This thread will be for those who own a lippert frame and associated running gear. KEEP the posts to FACTS and do NOT bash the company. If a post is made that contains a "bashing" and NO FACTS, it will be gone. I want to see that those with problems try to get a resolution. Lets try to keep this on track. Do NOT start a new thread about Lippert."
Frank
My concern is with the FACTS.Accusations without documentation, IE: Poor welds, defective frames, poor QC..is in effect bashing. That you had a problem , what it was and how it was resolved is of interest to all of us. If you are a expert qualified to speak to a particular problem please provide your qualifications and documentation concerning the problem.. That is also help to all of us.
To go to Lippert and tell them "some guy on a forum said your frames are defective and your welds are bad" may not get me very far. Now a statement from a "master welder" as above and his documentation may do some good...
I say again.... We have a Lippert frame and have had no problems... We belong to a RV group were EVERYONE has a Lippert frame and there have been problems particularly in the early model years..however the vast majority of the group has not had a problem... Of course One problem is too many..
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randyb
Houma, LA
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I've been having my FR-Cedar Creek Silverback 36 WQB for about four months...starting to have issues with frame flex in the front of the unit. Lots of moulding falling off, large gaps in the closet framing when hitched versus unhitched, mirrored closet door unit colapsing...etc. I have two friends in town with the same unit and they are having the same if not worse issues (cracked ceiling panel from the closet being pushed into the ceiling). The kingpin cover says Lipert Industries so I assume it's a Lipert frame. Anyone know how I can verify? I can't get over how cheaply they throw these things together. I love the camper but the Quality Control seems to be lacking.
Randy, Dawn, Sarah, and Spencer
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SuperdutyII
AZ
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I think we need to cut a little slack for those having frame flex problems. It may be (I don't know what the percentage is) an overall small percentage but for those who have the problem it is 100% of the units they own. And I suspect if it was mine I probably would have a hard time describing the problem w/o having others accuse me of bashing the product. I suspect offering a little help rather than criticism would help those in need.
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laknox
Arizona
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Texas_Bear wrote:Hello Everybody,
I was conducting some research on my 5th wheel, which has a Lippert frame and I believe axles. The problem I've had concerns the gap between the two tires on the passenger side of the trailer. The gap between the tires is only about 3/8". When I bought my 33' Forest River, Cedar Creek Silverback, the dealer said the gap was normal. Well, about a year ago I had my tires smoking because they were rubbing together on the passenger side (right side). I brought it into the dealer and they said they had to replace the bushings. When I asked them to inquire about the gap between the two tires, they said they called and Forrest River said, "Anywhere between a 1/4" and 1" gap is acceptable". As luck would have it, the two tires were touching again and as expected, I had a blow out. The dealer called Forrest River again and this time they claimed I must be overloading the trailer! The dealer brought my 5th wheel to the scales and sure enough (with all the regular stuff I keep in it), the trailer was within the weight limits. The solution from Forrest River; "put smaller tires on it". Now instead of 235/85R16 E load, I now have 215/85R16 E load tires. I hope this solution works; I pick up my trailer tomorrow!
That is totally unacceptable in my book; a total cop-out by FR. Even were it acceptable, they should at least buy the new tires for you. As heat is one of the most important issues with tire safety and wear, you simply have to have space all around the tires and rims for air to circulate to cool things down. Either the axles were mounted too close together by mistake, FR engineered it wrong from the get-go for the 235 tires, or they installed too short a spring set, allowing the tires to get too close together. I can't think of a single time I've seen a multi-axle trailer with tires that were < 2" apart, and usually more.
Lyle
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Brucec
Anywhere in the USA
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Your fame problem is very unusual, you should contact Cedar Creek directly not Forest River.
I had a 2002 Cedar Creek 36RLTS with oner 100,000 towing miles and never had any problems.
Now I have a 2007 37RDQS with over 20,000 or more towing miles and no problems.
While there has been some Chinese tire issues Cedar Creek has stood behind these problems 100% I myself was in South Texas in 2007 on a 12,000 mile trip and noticed a bubble on the side tire called Cedar Creek directly and they shipped me 5 new tires even the spare and had a dealer in Texas change these at no cost to me.
I know of no other Manufacture that stands behind there trailers like Cedar Creek but again most everyone I know calls Cedar Creek directly or emails them.
All there phone numbers and email addresses can be found on our clubs message base under the contact message. These are listed by our club members as our RV club has no direct association with Cedar Creek.
But I can't say enough good about the personal service they give to Cedar Creek owners. Anyone I know that has been to the factory was taken care of 100 percent.
Now Dealers on the other hand allot of them seem to not stand behind there sales after the sale and out right lie to people.
There is a list of dealers that our club members recommended to be placed on our clubs web site they feel have been very good and stood behind there customers.
Everything in our club is 100 percent FREE the dealers are also listed for FREE when our club members say they have treated them right but on the other hand they are also removed if a club members says they were not treated right.
Anyway I am not associated with Cedar Creek but my personal experiences with the workers at Cedar Creek was always positive and I personally know hundreds of others that would tell you the same.
So if you are having problems I would suggest calling Cedar Creek directly.
Happy RVing and hope to see you all down the road.
Life sure has been sweet in my Cedar Creek.
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BruceStarkey
Ontario, Canada
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CharLan; sorry, disagree on the bad weld diagnosis. On the reverse pic there is no weld where the fracture occurred it is about two inches to the left of that fracture. The fore and aft frame member supporting the pin-box side plate framing is welded (apparently secure enough as not fractured there) to that transverse main frame member which is of a simple "C" channel design which *"IMHO"* should have been a box tube of rectangular cross section of the same height.
We can talk about the break occurring for a number of reasons but overheating is probably not the root cause as with the thickness of that "C" channel being 1/4" or less, overheating requires that either too much amperage was used (weld looks awful but not the typical surrounding spatter you would get from higher then needed amperage) or the welder went too slowly over his joint and allowed the pool spot under the nozzle to "sit" for too long. That situation would have almost certainly resulted in at least one blow-through with the thicknes of metal we're talking about here and there is no evidence of that in your first pic of the front of that frame member.
My .02 or less value input (opinion only): I believe that frame fracture has occurred because of fore and aft stress along with the vertical stresses acting upon that frame member. Some diagonal bracing running from that visible joint in the reverse side picture back to the outboard corners of the gooseneck framing would have gone a long way to relieving or mitigating those stresses on that area.
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BruceStarkey
Ontario, Canada
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Texas_Bear: There is just no excuse for your problem leaving the factory with that 3/8" gap between tires IF you have the traditional and basic spring/axle/dog-bone style equalizer beam suspension under your rig. If you have that suspension set-up, any normal wear in that hardware will result in the weight of the camper drawing the two axles closer together.
Furthermore: with an equalizer beam set-up, you need only look at the arc inscribed by the spring eyes connected to those dog-bones and you will see that as each axle goes over a bump and that equalizer beam rotates to accommodate, the eyes of the fore and aft spring set move vertically opposite directions, they come closer together on a horizontal plane. This amount of distance change is miniscule but with a small dimension such as 3/8" clearance to begin with any wear in those aforementioned (probably cheap nylon) bushings and you can see where this is going.
Without a "Wet-Kit" (greasable shackle pins and bronze bushings, instead of those cheap nylon ones) the problem will show itself even sooner, with a distinct possibility of the dog-bone equalizer beams developing elongated holes where the spring shackles mount to them. You have to keep an eye on those components if they are indeed of that basic variety.
Forest River is not alone in using suspension components that are marginally suited in capacity to the weight of the rig AFTER deducting the usual pin weight of the RV. Axling & springing a camper for the weight carried by it's wheels only, relies too much on all components being of very rigidly enforced quality and that just does not occur reliably enough in the RV'ing industry with "low-bidder" junk being used as the norm.
* This post was
edited 11/03/09 08:11am by BruceStarkey *
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charlan
On. ca
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BruceStarkey wrote:CharLan; sorry, disagree on the bad weld diagnosis. On the reverse pic there is no weld where the fracture occurred it is about two inches to the left of that fracture. The fore and aft frame member supporting the pin-box side plate framing is welded (apparently secure enough as not fractured there) to that transverse main frame member which is of a simple "C" channel design which *"IMHO"* should have been a box tube of rectangular cross section of the same height.
Actually the break occured where the flange of the hanger was welded to the back of the beam where you see the weld.
This is a pic of the same weld
* This post was
edited 11/04/09 06:34am by charlan *
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