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RE: Surprising information at the Toronto RV show this year
Road Ruler doesn't come here any more.
Narrow Minded View's, LOL You mean kind of like "you have to have a truck that is 7 feet tall with 31 inch tires and a suspension that will help your chiropractor's career, and you only "need" it 2 times a year to tow anything?"
For me, give me something comfortable to tow with that has been set up by experts with DECADES of safe towing experience.
I guess my feelings are summed up by a recent conversation I had from a Dodge 2500 owner with a Cummings turbo diesel pulling a 14-15k fifth wheel.
Me- What's your axle rating?
Owner- It's a 3/4 ton
Me- What's the pin weight?
Owner- It has a Cummings!
Me- Have you weighed it?
Owner- I'm all right.
Of course, a minivan, small SUV, Car, etc properly equipped and UNDER axle ratings hooked to anything but a pop up is in danger of spontaneous disintegrating at the moment of hitching up. And Heaven forbid that the poor tow vehicle rely on the trailer brakes to stop the trailer, that's just not natural. :)
My tow vehicle is a 2004 Kia Sorento EX. Why? Because we are comfortable with it. It pulls like a train, is stable, and was recommended by Andy personally. Please, before you judge the man at least give him a phone call and talk to him. He would be happy to talk to anyone about towing.
Ok, off my soapbox :) Ya'll have a good night
I hope you don't slip while stepping off your soapbox. BTW, it is a Cummins diesel and not a Cummings.
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JimG
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03/13/10 03:44pm |
Hybrid Travel Trailers
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RE: Looking at a 24' Layton Rampage by Skyline
They are pretty good trailers. I have a 2006 Rampage 5th wheel. Mine has served me well. It has had no leaks and everything has always worked. I would rate them as middle level quality. My brothers Weekend Warrior is a nicer trailer, but the Rampage was a lot cheaper. I would not hesitate to buy another one.
I have two issues with mine at this time: (1) the stick on graphics are junk. Mine are all peeling and cracking. (2) I have a bent leaf spring hanger. This is more of a Lippert frame problem.
I would check out the trailer closely. If it has had a leak, I would probably walk. Check out the frame, and check around the windows, door and ramp door for any stress cracks that may signify a structure issue. Verify that the plumbing is good, the appliances, heat, and AC work and you should be good to go.
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JimG
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03/01/10 04:39pm |
Toy Haulers
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RE: Surprising information at the Toronto RV show this year
Look out you guys or you will have Road Ruler and Andy ganging up on you guy's. I saw the Airstream pushing the Mustang into the Can-Am parking lot a couple weeks ago
Where has Road Ruler been? I have not seen a post from him in a while now. I kind of miss his narrow scoped way of looking at things.
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JimG
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01/31/10 04:37pm |
Hybrid Travel Trailers
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RE: Graphics on Toy hauler
The graphics on my Rampage are failing badly. I too would like to know what it costs to replace them. The stickers that Skyline put on my trailer are pure junk!
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JimG
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12/26/09 11:24pm |
Toy Haulers
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RE: Get rid of them?
:B I wish I could ride that much. Mine is a yard dog with a few trips to NF areas.
Bring it to Utah, we are very ATV friendly.
We live in Piute County, the smallest county in UT and we have over 3500 miles of ATV trails.:W:B
The Piute trail is awesome and well worth the trip.
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JimG
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10/26/09 09:22am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: Aerodynamic Lightweights - Does Shape Make a Difference?
Yes, $75k for a 34’ Airstream that is not nearly as versatile as my “barn door” 33’ Rampage. I purchased the Rampage used, but new, it would have been less than half the price of the Airstream.
You could also argue that the low price and short useful life of a conventional trailer allows you to buy new, twice, for the same or less as a new A/S. And the balance go towards fuel.
Or, one could (as have many) bought the better trailer type but once -- new or used -- and kept it another quarter century. Quality is it's own reward. Better design, materials and construction. I bought my cigar tube used, truck and trailer, and have less in both than many seem to have in either.
So my choice would be to buy a box that has greater transportation costs? Lesser road-ability? Requires a more expensive TV? Has a short useful life?
A premium trailer, new, obviously costs more. If it lasts three or four times as long then the new price is easily absorbed. My folks bought their Silver Streak around 1976. And sold it around 2004. Replaced the carpeting annually as they full-timed, an air conditioner once and some other general repairs. Pocket change. Sold it for a nice price.
A well constructed, lighter weight, aerodynamic trailer pays for itself by every measure. And they are available at every price point in the used market. "Versatility" is subjective.
I agree that the Airstream is a better built trailer than my Rampage, but I stand by my statement this is trailer is not very versatile. As a matter of fact, for a toy hauler, this trailer is poorly designed. The real target market for a toy hauler is catering to a group that like to dry camp. This Airstream is really designed for two people and it is at home in an RV park. It has a small fresh water tank, no built in generator, no fuel station, and a limiting storage area in the back. Lets put this thing side-by-side with my Rampage.
- The Airstream sleeps 2 to 3, My Rampage, sleeps 6 to 8.
- The Airstream has 54 gallon fresh water, my Rampage has 160 gallons.
- Rampage has a 5500 watt generator
- Rampage has @ 20 gallon fuel tank.
- The Airstream should be able to hold 2 ATV’s – this is provided you have enough space to turn the second one sideways. My Rampage will easily hold 3.
For my family, if I were to buy this Airstream, I would have to leave an ATV home, and one teenage boy would have to sleep on the floor. I guess I’ll keep my barn door.
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JimG
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10/04/09 11:21pm |
Towing
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RE: Aerodynamic Lightweights - Does Shape Make a Difference?
Actually you would not give up much at all. I think you are way overrating the capabilities of your Infiniti.
I believe the Infiniti would perform in the same ball park as a Caddy DTS or Dodge Intrepid. Without a doubt the Infiniti solo has shorter stopping distances, better handling capabilities, and a quicker acceleration rate.
A few years ago Colin Connell from Hensley Mfg held a rally and this interesting account came out of the event.
"One year a junior engineer from one of the auto companies really took me to task during my seminar at the Hensley rally. His issue was the liability of the stopping distance of Colin Connell’s combination. At the time he was towing a 34 Airstream with a Cadillac DTS. The engineer was towing a 32' conventional trailer with a HD 3/4 ton pick-up.
I asked him if he had spent time on the proving grounds which he had. I then asked him which would stop in a shorter distance his truck or the DTS as solo vehicles. He had to admit that the DTS would stop in a much shorter distance. Then I asked him if you could stop just the trailers which would stop faster. His with four 12" brakes and Light truck tires or Colin’s with six 12" brakes and 60 series, sticky high performance tires. Well it was obvious that Collin’s trailer had way more stopping ability and he admitted that. Then asked him why would your truck which needs more room to stop and your trailer that needs more room to stop suddenly stop in less distance when you hook them together? That was without getting into the lousy brake control he had. He then asked about brake fade in mountain driving which again was no contest as the Diesel without an exhaust brake would not be able to control speed like the gas engine in the Cadillac. I rarely use the brakes in mountains as even the 3.5 Liter Intrepid has enough engine braking to control the combination. After the seminar I took him out for a test drive in the Intrepid and 34'Airstream and he just could not believe how it stopped and the violent maneuvers it could handle. He had to admit it was likely better than his truck solo. He did buy a Hensley before left. "
As I have said many times before Jim you will never understand how something performs unless you actually get behind the wheel and experience it.
Being a former Hensley owner, I have heard derivations of that story before. The only difference is that I think you need to substitute Colin name with Andy’s.
I do agree that you will never know how something performs unless you actually get behind the wheel and experience it. Andy has shown us that when you take a stable trailer, with a proper hitch setup, you can get any reasonable vehicle to pull it. Further he has shown us that if you optimize the complete package, he can get a car like the 300, pull a trailer through his silly slalom course a few kilometers faster than his stock 2500HD. The problem is that this does not really tell us anything. So what if the car can go a few mph faster. What would be a whole lot more interesting would be to really challenge the claim that the car is more stable by pulling a misbehaving trailer behind it and see how it compare to his 2500HD. As you may recall, this is exactly what Ford did to demonstrate the stability of the new F-150.
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JimG
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10/04/09 10:56pm |
Towing
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RE: Aerodynamic Lightweights - Does Shape Make a Difference?
Road Ruler, just buy a real tow vehicle and you will not have to over-pay for an Airstream. It is as simple as that!
ROTFL.... Too funny!
I guess I could do that Jim but then I would have to give up the outstanding performance, handling, comfort, fuel efficiency, safety, etc etc etc. Think we will keep the grocery getter, lol
Test Drive in a 30klm cross wind...
Actually you would not give up much at all. I think you are way overrating the capabilities of your Infiniti.
Kind of in-line with the point 345Jeep was making, I decided to be more ‘free-thinking” and did a Google search for the Airstream Toy Hauler. I found a listing for a new 2009 Airstream PanAmerica 34’ Toy Hauler. The original price was $93,121 and the reduced price was $75,107. Yes, $75k for a 34’ Airstream that is not nearly as versatile as my “barn door” 33’ Rampage. I purchased the Rampage used, but new, it would have been less than half the price of the Airstream.
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JimG
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10/01/09 11:42pm |
Towing
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RE: Aerodynamic Lightweights - Does Shape Make a Difference?
Have you priced a NEW Airstream lately ? My NEW barn door cost $11k. My complaint is that you have to pay considerably more for the aerodynamic product if you want it NEW.
What you are paying for is a lot more than an aerodynamic trailer. What you get for the big bucks is the whole package which makes it "the best towing trailer on the planet?
...
Road Ruler, just buy a real tow vehicle and you will not have to over-pay for an Airstream. It is as simple as that!
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JimG
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09/30/09 09:07pm |
Towing
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RE: Aerodynamic Lightweights - Does Shape Make a Difference?
This is kind of a 'duh' thread isn't it ?
What isn't mentioned is that the super duper aerodynamic trailers are often much more expensive to acquire on a per square foot basis than your standard box on wheels. At the end of the day, aren't you are going to pay either way ? :h
How many gallons of gas or diesel could you purchase with the extra money that you have to spend on an Airstream or other botique TT that slices through the wind....not to mention air springs, etc. for the mini-van ? :h
We payed $6,000 for our 1973 super duper aerodynamic trailer. How much did you pay for your barn door?
Also, aerodynamic efficiency alone won't save you on long and steep grades. I sure wouldn't want to be pulling that sleek 25' TT at camping weight with a mini-van up a 6% grade in 100 degree temperatures. When my Chrysler Ultrabrokenmatic transmission goes kaput midway up I could at least comfort myself that I had saved a lot of gas on the straightaways.
You seemed to be full of PCI (pre conceived ideas). Aerodynamics works going up hill as well as on the level.
I could not agree with 345Jeep more.
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JimG
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09/30/09 09:04pm |
Towing
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RE: Just got hosed on deal to buy new Fuzion
kawilance,
You did not mention the extra cost that the dealer thought he needed. Was it $100, $1000 or what? I would be reasonable especially if I was not lied to as you believe, and then counter the extra price remembering that you have the option of cancelling the sale if they could not justify the extra cost.
At this point it's more about principle than cost. I was quoted a price and I expect them to honor that quote. The salesman said $500 more might be enough but I had already had enough. Who's to say they would'nt go back on that quote and want even more? In my mind I was no longer able to trust a word they said. Again, I do not believe I was lied to by the salesman but the owner should honor what was agreed to.
What is the difference in price between this "bad" dealer and the Ohio dealer?
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JimG
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09/16/09 01:21am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: Just got hosed on deal to buy new Fuzion
This story does not surprise me at all. This is why I typically buy used. Maybe I have been lucky, but I have had so much better luck dealing with private party sales. It is amazing, that when both parties in the transaction are rational, how smooth the transaction goes.
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JimG
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09/15/09 05:49pm |
Toy Haulers
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RE: How long does your bulit in ONAN generator run on your
I have a Onan 5500 on my trailer. I would guess it burns @ 0.5 gal every hour under light load (TV/Playstation). When my kids come with me to the dunes, I bring a Honda 2000 watt portable generator along. The Honda will run @ 7 hours on a gallon. It is also quieter than the Onan.
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JimG
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09/11/09 09:34am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: Eclipse Attitude; Pull the Trigger?
Have you thought about a 5th wheel? check out the Attitude F30AKSG and the Forest River Sandstorm F28SPL. With a big family these may suit you a little better. Ane I bet they would tow a lot better than a bumper pull. But you may need the bed of your truck for something .. anyways, just a thought
I went from a 26’ Rampage bumper pull to a 32’ Rampage 5th wheel and I have never looked back. The 5th wheel pulls way better than the bumper pull ever did. I had sway issues with my bumper pull when I put the 3rd quad in it. The 3rd quad took away enough tongue weight to create a sway issue. These problems are non-existent with my 5th wheel.
Also, to the OP, for the money you are willing to pay, I would take a good look at the used market. Have you looked at any used Weekend Warriors? They are very nice and well built. Also, with the company going under, you may be able to use that as leverage to drive the price down.
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JimG
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09/10/09 01:10am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: Eclipse Attitude; Pull the Trigger?
...Unfortunately I'm the type that gets fixated on something and other areas of my life suffer. I did force myself to go change the oil on my two Accords today! At least I got something accomplished...
LOL! I can understand this. I just went through something like this with buying a RZR-S.
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JimG
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09/10/09 01:01am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: Eclipse Attitude; Pull the Trigger?
I too think there is more room for negotiation here. I would hit them with a low ball offer and work up from there.
Also, make sure they toss in a decent hitch. A standard weight distributing or equalizing hitch with a friction sway control is not what I would consider a decent hitch. Insist on an Equal-i-zer brand (this is the exact way it is spelled) or a Reese Dual-Cam. Both of these hitches have built in sway control and are considered superior to the standard hitch with the friction sway control. You do not want a trailer as heavy as this one swaying behind your truck.
Equal-i-zer Hitch
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JimG
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09/09/09 09:13pm |
Toy Haulers
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RE: Cost to add brakes to popup?
Have you actually measured the stops? My guess is no.
There is a phenomenon at work that a lot of people are unaware of. If you are driving a larger heavier vehicle, the deceleration force required to bring it down to a stop is a lot more aggressive because of the higher kinetic energy involved (mass x velocity). To the human behind the wheel, we sense the extreme deceleration and interpret a "harder stop" in our brains. However, actually measuring the distances will often prove otherwise. Simply watch a few episodes of Motorweek and see the stopping distances averaged by vehicles and you'll see what I mean. A Mini Cooper will stop in 120 feet with very little drama. An F-350 will be lucky to stop in 160 feet and you'll feel in the cab like the truck just pulled off a miracle stop, until you measure the marks. :)
We have had similar discussions to this in the past. If you are worried about stopping distance just buy a Ram. I have mentioned before that my Ram 2500 does seem to stop quite well. According to this article, it will stop from 60 to 0 in just under 139'.
Test
By car standards, I am sure this is not impressive. But, I seem to recall that it is just a couple feet longer than the Honda Odyssey needed.
In reality though, if stopping these trucks is so bad, why do we need see them involved in all sorts of rear-end collisions? One would also think that the drivers of these vehicles would be highly stressed. LOL, if it was an adventure every time I hit the brake, I think I would get rid of my truck. Thankfully, this is not the case; I now have 108k on the odometer and have not rear-ended a car yet. Go figure.
I'm not knocking your Toyotas, just stating the facts. Now that the Freestar is out of production, the Sienna would be on a list of potential replacements if it came to it.
LOL – you can act right now. Did you see that the Freestar qualifies for the Cash for Clunkers program?
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JimG
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08/03/09 09:06am |
Folding Trailers
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RE: Help choosing a tow vehicle
... All I'm saying is that there is no reason the OEMs get to charge $5-10k more for a Crossover SUV than a minivan. It's all marketing, and supply and demand. Minivans aren't in demand, so they are priced competitively, SUVs are in fashion, so they command a premium. It's not for any mechanical or technical reason, just simple economics.
Oh, and Toyota Sienna vans CAN be made AWD. At one time so could Chrysler vans, GM vans, and Ford vans. Lack of demand killed most, but Toyota still offers last I checked. Where do you think the technology to add a rear driveshaft to a FWD vehicle came from?
Well with Toyota, I am not sure if this is the case. According to Edmunds, one can buy a 2009 Sienna Limited AWD for the True Market Value price of $34,435. They also claim, one can buy a 2009 Highlander Limited AWD for the True Market Value of $31,138. Sure looks like the Crossover is cheaper.Maybe in that one case, that is true. But the original post was regarding a Traverse, something GM thinks is worth nearly $40k. From their own fleet, you can get several minivans (loaded no less) for around $30k.
I agree that the $40k price tag is steep. Does GM even make a mini-van anymore? It looks like the only vans that GM sells are full-sized.
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JimG
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07/24/09 10:27am |
Folding Trailers
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RE: Help choosing a tow vehicle
... All I'm saying is that there is no reason the OEMs get to charge $5-10k more for a Crossover SUV than a minivan. It's all marketing, and supply and demand. Minivans aren't in demand, so they are priced competitively, SUVs are in fashion, so they command a premium. It's not for any mechanical or technical reason, just simple economics.
Oh, and Toyota Sienna vans CAN be made AWD. At one time so could Chrysler vans, GM vans, and Ford vans. Lack of demand killed most, but Toyota still offers last I checked. Where do you think the technology to add a rear driveshaft to a FWD vehicle came from?
Well with Toyota, I am not sure if this is the case. According to Edmunds, one can buy a 2009 Sienna Limited AWD for the True Market Value price of $34,435. They also claim, one can buy a 2009 Highlander Limited AWD for the True Market Value of $31,138. Sure looks like the Crossover is cheaper.
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JimG
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07/23/09 11:09pm |
Folding Trailers
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RE: Ford Freestar
Interesting that one guy thinks the Freestar is a slalom champ, and otehrs say it has "ungainly handling". I can't see it doing too well with an RV behind it if it's acceleration solo is called "sluggish". I guess it depends what they are comparing it to.
LOL - I have always found this interesting too. At times I wonder why NASCAR has not starting racing Freestar’s. While I do not think the Freestar is as bad of a vehicle as this article makes it out to be, I do question the glaring reviews this vehicle seems to get on this forum. Every publication review I read on this vehicle seems to note, poor fuel economy, sloppy handling, a sluggish acceleration. Yet on this forum, a few seem to love this vehicle and rave about these traits. Go figure.
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JimG
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07/01/09 01:54pm |
Tow Vehicles
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