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Forum
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RE: FunFinder Opinions
Thanks to everybody for the info!!!
you may want to check out the Rockwood 2304S. It has a Murphy Bed (converts between queen bed & sofa) and dinette in slideout. Dave
Yes, I saw the 2304. Nice, but the floorplan I see here doesn't have a slideout. Also the 490 lb dry tongue weight is almost at my 500 lb limit. I also saw the 2502S which has a slideout, sofa and separate dinette. But I worry about its length 25'8" for my 09 Highlander (110" wheelbase) with 5000 lb tow rating (although I plan to get good wt distrib hitch)
As for weight...we travel on the heavy side and weigh in just shy of 6000 lbs and have a tongue weight in the 675 to 710 lb range depending on how long we are going to be out...
Wow, the stated dry hitch weight is 375 lbs. Do hitch weights really increase that much once propane and battery are added, or have you added alot of stuff at the front? Otherwise, I may need to look at a different unit. I'll be traveling lightly and was hoping to keep my loaded hitch weight to 450 lbs (90% of my limit).
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GBlack
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11/24/09 03:57pm |
Travel Trailers
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FunFinder Opinions
I'm looking at the FunFinder X210WBS floorplan here
It's not perfect, but seems to have most things I want. It would be better with a Murphy Bed (converts between queen bed & sofa) and dinette in slideout.
My questions are:
1) Are FunFinder's considered to be good quality (on par with Jaycos, etc.)? Are they made by the same company who makes the Crossroads Cruiser fifth wheels?
2) Anybody with this model who can tell me ACTUAL trailer and tongue weights?
3) We have a 6-yr old son who needs to sleep on jackknife sofa. I read they aren't comfortable. Will a mattress topper work on them? In bed configuration, does it tend to tip up/over when a heavy person rolls off the side of it?
4) One sofa will be tight for three of us plus pooch. Can anybody recommend a good quality folding "recliner" to serve as extra chair to place in front of bed during daytime?
Thanks!
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GBlack
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11/24/09 01:42pm |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Relationship Between Wheelbase and Max TT Length
Thanks everybody for the info!
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GBlack
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11/18/09 06:41pm |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Relationship Between Wheelbase and Max TT Length
Here is some info on what you are lookng for.
Length calculations
Hope this helps.
Dave
Thanks Dave! Interesting info! Looks like max length is only 20' for my SUV. Shoot :-( Do you know if those guidelines assume sway control equip & weight dist hitch is used? Will using both of those allow me a bit more length, or will those things not matter in respect to max length?
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GBlack
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11/18/09 06:40pm |
Travel Trailers
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Relationship Between Wheelbase and Max TT Length
Hi: I'm looking for a TT to pull with my '09 Highlander (110" wheelbase). Has anybody ever seen any FIRM GUIDELINES OR FORMULA (not just opinions) on maximum trailer length for a given tow vehicle wheelbase? Assuming a proper setup with weight distribution hitch and sway bars, should I really be that concerned with length? I'm looking in the 20-25 ft range.
I'm aware that weight is a big issue, I'm just asking about LENGTH.
Thanks!
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GBlack
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11/18/09 05:04pm |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Liteweight TT's with Murphy Beds
The Rockwood 2304S has one:
Thanks. Yes I saw that, but the 2304's dry hitch weight is stated as 703 lbs -- WAY too much for my 500 lb tongue weight limit. But I do like that layout.
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GBlack
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11/17/09 06:59pm |
Travel Trailers
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Liteweight TT's with Murphy Beds
Hi: Has anybody ever slept on a Murphy Bed before? Do they have the same thickness mattress as a regular RV bed, or are they thin (like in Hide-a-bed sofa)? Are they comfortable?
Other than a couple Forest River liteweight models (Rockwood 2104 and equiv. Flagstaff model), murphy beds don't seem very common. Wonder why? They look like a good compromise for me since I want a sofa by day), walkaround queen bed by night, and also a dinette. Also I need to stay well below 5000 lb loaded TT weight and 500 lb loaded tongue wt (those are my TV limits). This seems to limit me to TTs under 24 ft.
Thanks!
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GBlack
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11/17/09 06:35pm |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Actual Tongue Wt of Jay Feather EXP 213 or Sport 199/218/226
Thanks for the informative posts!
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GBlack
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11/16/09 02:06pm |
Travel Trailers
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RE: J Cube Sofa
I had a JCube in my 31.5BHDS Eagle Super Lite. I thought it was really nice. It opened up to almost a king size bed (75x75 or something like that). Then again, it's size may depend on model #. It folded up to a nice sofa during the day. No problem with warmth; if trailer is warm, I imagine it should be also. Yes, it's low, but that really only mattered to me when climbing in/out of it. We didn't keep the camper long enough to appraise how it holds up over time.
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GBlack
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11/16/09 11:31am |
Travel Trailers
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Actual Tongue Wt of Jay Feather EXP 213 or Sport 199/218/226
Hi, I'm considering one of these models (2009/2010), but am concerned about tongue weight (have 500 lb limit). Since Jayco's stated (brochure) tongue weight is dry (w/o battery or propane), I'm wondering if anybody has ACTUAL tongue weights for any of these? This wt seems difficult to get from dealers, short of asking them to haul the trailer to weigh station (wish they had Sherline scale), which they probably won't do for 3 different models.
Thanks!
Gary
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GBlack
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11/15/09 11:44pm |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Question re: GCWR - Loaded Vehicle Weight = Tow Capacity
All I am trying to do is get people to take responsibility and follow the ratings. More specifically, I am trying to get people to stop giving out advice to others on this topic when they are clearly unqualified to do so. But, if someone is foolish enough to go to the Internet and take advice from complete strangers over what the manufacturer of their vehicle says to do, then Darwin's law of natural selection applies.
Although I'm sure some want this thread to end (not sure why they care), I feel the need to again clarify what I originally asked since some folks seem intent on twisting things around to make it seem as if I'm looking for an excuse to exceed ratings, or I'm foolish enough to ask internet strangers to tell me how to live my life. Not true.
Stated another way, my original question was: "Is tow rating a DERIVED number, or a FIRM limit"? This is strictly an example, but suppose the main driver for tow capacity is GCWR of 11,000 lbs. Further, suppose the OEM assumes a vehicle loaded to 6000 lbs, and then calculates tow capacity as 11000-6000 = 5000 lbs. In this case, tow capacity is a DERIVED number. In other words, if the vehicle is only loaded to 5500 lbs instead, then tow capacity will be 11000-5500 = 5500 lbs (instead of 5000 lbs). On the other hand, if the OEM's 5000 lb tow capacity is a FIRM limit, then that value must be met regardless of how the tow vehicle is loaded.
That's all I was asking. Nothing more, nothing less. Twist it however you wish, but my original question was very straighforward and simple.
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GBlack
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11/14/09 04:50pm |
Towing
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RE: Tongue Weight Scales & Percentages
Thanks everybody for the info. And thanks WoodLark for the link to the scale.
Happy Camping!
Gary
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GBlack
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11/13/09 09:53pm |
Towing
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RE: Question re: GCWR - Loaded Vehicle Weight = Tow Capacity
Before deciding to ignore Toyota's printed recommendation, you may want to consider the warranty implications.
It's pretty clear that Toyota has not tested a WD hitch, and likely did not even account for it's loading when doing FEA on the monocoque (or any other chassis component). So... they don't know that it won't fail.
If there is a failure, they would be well within reason to deny warranty repair. And by fail I don't mean the car will split in half. More likely failures include floorpan deformation, squeaks and rattles, doors not closing securely etc.
So what do you suggest? Should I load a 499 lb tongue weight square on the receiver ball and drive with my headlights pointing up at the sky? (slight exaggeration of course, but you get the point) That 499 lb tongue weight will be within Toyota's limits.
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GBlack
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11/13/09 03:58pm |
Towing
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RE: Question re: GCWR - Loaded Vehicle Weight = Tow Capacity
Help me understand why when looking for justification, the internet is more accurate than the manufacturer?
Because speaking to folks on the internet with practical towing experience and (usually) no agenda is better than some young schmuck in the Toyota "Customer Service" who obviously has little knowledge of towing and is taking a strict CYA approach on behalf of Toyota. On the other hand, if I was able to speak directly to engineering design folks at Toyota, I would place much greater emphasis on what they told me.
I'm not looking for justification, approval, acceptance, etc. etc. I'm merely doing thorough research beforehand by asking folks who know because specific info from Toyota is not available (only CYA info). If I took everybody's stated CYA positions, I'd end up living my life in a cave.
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GBlack
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11/13/09 11:47am |
Towing
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RE: Question re: GCWR - Loaded Vehicle Weight = Tow Capacity
So you can listen to Toyota's well-intentioned-but-pooorly-executed tripe about using the right towing equipment, or you can think for yourself and get the job done right. What you CAN'T DO, no matter how much Toyota and you might want it, it properly tow a 5000 pound travel trailer WITHOUT a WDH. You can't even tow a 3500 pound travel trailer properly while following Toyota's ruling, because the tongue weight is going to sag the Highlander so badly your headlights will be in everyone's eyes. There is only ONE WAY to do it right...
Thanks caddywampus. Having no TT or hitch experience, that's the type of practical advice I need.
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GBlack
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11/13/09 11:41am |
Towing
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RE: Tongue Weight Scales & Percentages
Also remember that the weight distribution hitch will be in a box that might be 60 pounds. Or it might be 80 or 100 pounds, depending on it's size and the amount of steel.
Good Luck,
Fred.
Thanks Fred, That's a good point. I never thought of the weight dist hitch (WDH) itself adding adding extra tongue weight. Does its weight also get distributed to other axles? If not, for 300-400 lbs of tongue weight, will the WDH re-distribute more weight AWAY from the tongue than what it will ADD to the tongue itself?
Thanks also for 4x4 way of measuring tongue weight. I saw that somewhere else. But I'd like a simpler and more precise way than this, espec. since I may be measuring several different TTs. Are 500-600 lb portable scales cheap and easy to come by? I'd rather rent this for 1-2 days (or buy if cheap) than to rig up some wood plank leverage/balance system.
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GBlack
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11/13/09 12:47am |
Towing
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Tongue Weight Scales & Percentages
Hi: Since my tow vehicle's tongue weight limit is 500 lbs, I'd like to verify the actual tongue weight at the dealer's lot before I purchase my TT. I don't trust the manufacturers brochure/website tongue weights since they don't include propane tanks or battery. My two questions are:
1) Since dealers don't have scales and it'll be a pain to pull 3-4 different trailer models (if they even allow) to a truck stop or weight station, is there a simple, inexpensive scale I can buy/rent to weigh the tongue myself at the dealer's lot? Will any flat scale with a 500 lb weight capacity suffice? Do I simply position it under the tongue and let the full trailer weight rest on top it?
2) On manufacturer brochures, I've noticed different TT models have different (empty) tongue weight to trailer weight ratios. If tongue weights should normally be 10-12% of trailer weight, then why such a large variability in these ratios? Shouldn't all of them be between .10 to .12? That doesn't seem to be the case.
Thanks!
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GBlack
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11/13/09 12:00am |
Towing
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RE: Question re: GCWR - Loaded Vehicle Weight = Tow Capacity
Well, I officially give up trying to get an accurate, clear and honest answer from Toyota USA on the WDH. Despite their initial reply that it's OK to use a WDH, the guy has changed his recommendation after I forwarded him an email from Toyota Canada (forwarded to me by guy on ToyotaNation.com who also owns a Highlander) saying a WDH is NOT recommended for the 2009 Highlander. Although my contact at Toyota USA claims he just made an “error”, I feel he may have arbitrarily tossed out a recommendation hoping he wouldn’t be called on it. After being questioned, I feel he changed his recommendation to NOT USE WDH due to that other email and/or the lack of test data since Toyota never tested their hitch using a WDH (because they claim a WDH isn’t necessary under 500 lb of tongue weight).
Although I like my Highlander, this nightmare of trying to get accurate, clear and honest technical info from Toyota has caused me to never want to buy another Toyota again.
The most recent succession of emails is too long to post here. But if you are interested in seeing them, PM me your email address and I’ll forward them to you. They consist of another three back-and-forth emails between each of us, ending in my statement that I’ll never buy another Toyota again.
Although I have a sore head from banging it against the wall 20 times, I’m still considering a WDH! At least that’s what the hitch shops and my internet friends here tell me I’ll need for tongue weights over 300-400 lbs. Obviously Toyota and their dealership service depts. don’t have a clue.
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GBlack
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11/12/09 11:24pm |
Towing
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RE: Older vs New 5er
My experience always turns out the same with vehicles or RVs -- I start off looking at 1-2 year used units. By the time I find a cream puff, they are asking almost as much for it as what I can find a new unit for IF I SHOP AROUND A LOT (mostly online) at high volume/low profit margin dealerships. Seems I can find new units for 35% off MSRP, whereas 1-2 yr units may be 40%-45% at most off original MSRP. Not enough difference, and so I've ended up buying new for warranty and newer features. Then again, if you're looking at much older units than 1-2 yrs, you should defin. be able to get more off than above. Since I'm not handy at all, I've shy'd away from such older ones.
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GBlack
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11/12/09 12:05am |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Question re: GCWR - Loaded Vehicle Weight = Tow Capacity
Only to find out the statement above is what has been causing all the confusion. Had I actually seen the wording, I could have explained this PAGES ago.
Axle-mounted hitches are a completely different thing
Actually, that Owners manual statement wasn't the only thing that caused concern to me and others. A Canadian guy on ToyotaNation Forum emailed ToyotaCanada and received a very explicit "Not Recommended" statement. We're in process of trying to reconcile those two conflicting statements. Here's the link containing ToyotaCanada's statement. The pertinent part of that thread is shown below:
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Dear Mr. Boudreau:
Thank you for your most recent correspondence.
We would like to take this opportunity to mention that most hitch manufacturers only recommend weight distribution when towing over 5000 pounds; the 2009 Highlander has a maximum towing capacity of 5000 pounds. Weight distribution hitches put a great deal of strain on the frame of the vehicle to achieve the distribution of the weight. Unibody vehicles are not built for this type of strain; the Highlander is a unibody vehicle that does not have a full frame, it is not recommended for use with a weight distribution hitch.
Please be advised that weight distribution hitches are common on trucks that have full frames. Toyota vehicles that have full frames are the Tundra, Tacoma and the 4Runner.
We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused. We hope this information is helpful and thank you again for taking the time to write.
Sincerely,
Stewart McMillan
Customer Interaction Centre
Toyota Canada Inc.
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GBlack
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11/11/09 09:44pm |
Towing
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