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smkettner

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Posted: 11/04/09 03:37pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

They have put the drivers on a needs to know basis. If it is normal why have it moving around? We gave up manual transmissions for automatics why not trust the "automatic" gauges. Just as I must trust the transmission to upshift at the right time I trust the gauge will move up when actually needed.


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ib516

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Posted: 11/04/09 03:47pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Ductape wrote:

From a Dodge truck manual: "The instrument cluster circuitry restricts the oil pressure gauge needle operation in order to provide readings that are consistent with customer expectations."

In other words, it is not designed to tell you what the measurement is. It tells you what you expect it to.

Perhaps a better term than idiot gauge would be "Politician Gauge".

Yes, sadly, Dodge has one idiot light with a needle, and that is the newest trucks oil pressure gauage. All other are still functional.


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Yahooligan

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Posted: 11/04/09 03:48pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

smkettner wrote:

They have put the drivers on a needs to know basis. If it is normal why have it moving around? We gave up manual transmissions for automatics why not trust the "automatic" gauges. Just as I must trust the transmission to upshift at the right time I trust the gauge will move up when actually needed.


As an extreme, slightly sarcastic response, do you wait for your smoke detector to tell you when your food is burning?

If the gauge doesn't move until things have already started overheating then that's a problem. If the gauges move while there's still some time to come up with a plan then that's fine, but how do people KNOW which case is reality unless they experience it first-hand? That's the problem I see.

Again, these are TRUCKS. Not cars. They shouldn't be dumbed-down for people that don't know any better. All this does is make for a lazy, dumb society. Education is the better choice, IMO.


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smkettner

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Posted: 11/04/09 04:02pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Do you use an oven thermometer or do you trust the dial that says it is set at 350?
I trust the dial.

I am just saying I have yet to read a post where the added gauge said it was overheating and the factory gauge had not moved. I don't need to know if my motor is 190 or 230 degrees. Although I hope it will move some at 250.

It would be nice if the owners' manual would just say the temps when the gauge would move.

I posted a link to a blog near the start and that "idiot" gauge seems to work perfectly IMO.

surveyorjp

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Posted: 11/04/09 04:05pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Ductape wrote:

From a Dodge truck manual: "The instrument cluster circuitry restricts the oil pressure gauge needle operation in order to provide readings that are consistent with customer expectations."

In other words, it is not designed to tell you what the measurement is. It tells you what you expect it to.

Perhaps a better term than idiot gauge would be "Politician Gauge".


It's a shame to hear that the newer Dodges have gone this route as well. Again, I'm glad my old Ram still has an actual functioning gauge.


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LarryJM

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Posted: 11/04/09 04:45pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

firecapt1 wrote:

I dont' think there is any such thing as and "idiot gauge."

Consider the difference between a "gauge" and a "light." The gauge moves along a scale based on pressure or temperature, whether it shows you an exact reading (in degrees, psi, etc.) or just a general scale, it gives you a reasonable idea of what is happening with that particular system (oil, water, transmission,etc.).

A light (idiot light) comes on when things have gotten so out of control, that the system it is monitoring is way beyond it's safe limits. Often, pulling to the side of the road, stopping, and turning off your engine at that point is too late, you have already done damage. I don't need to know, for instance, what my exact transmission temperature is, just if it is rising above normal and when it approaches critical levels.

As per my signature, I have a 2007 Ford F-250 SD Diesel. It has a factory built in boost, water temp, transmission temp, and oil pressure gauge. I believe that they are all adequate to allow me to anticipate problems and react in time to avoid damage.

That being said I would like to have an Exhaust Gas temp gauge and I may add one someday. In the end, gauges, whether factory installed or after-market are far superior to "idiot lights."


Unfortunately, in the Ford PSDs at least the 99+ 7.3L doesn't have water temp as a number in the PCM data stream. IIRC it has a sensor that moves until the temp in is the normal range and then clamps that and if it goes outside that range it will then move again to show overheating. One problem is that the gauges in the instrument cluster have their own processor that are controlled by the instrumentation design group and not by folks like the tranny design group or coolong design group. While tranny temps are real as seen by the PCM they are not accurately reflected in the gauge in the stock cluster group since that group takes the data from the PCM and makes the gauge work and visually represent what they want which is usually "warming up", "normal", and "too high". This is to prevent folks from seeing a change like a real gauge would show and pestering the dealer over a potential problem they might think exists.

Larry


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terrybk

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Posted: 11/04/09 07:53pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Yahooligan wrote:



In the case of your 2000 Chevy, the gauge reading is controlled by the PCM. The ECT (Engine Coolant Temperature) sensor is a potentiometer (A kind of variable resistor). A modern "idiot gauge" if you will. I know you didn't say otherwise, I just wanted to explain the mechanics of it. With a scantool or other OBDII-capable device it's possible to see the actual coolant temp. The temp gauge in your truck isn't directly connected to the sensor in this case, it's the PCM that's telling it what it show.




Maybe Fords are more idiot than GM. On the GM, it moves up long before anything is wrong.

I remember when GM started with over dampened gas gauges because people didn't like the needle moving around on turns. In some cars you could run out of gas before the needle hit empty. But wait a minute or two, it will....


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mike brez

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Posted: 11/05/09 05:44am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Ford trans temp guage.


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