surveyorjp
Missouri
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I would rather have an actual working gauge than one of these newer gauges that simply connect to an on off switch without reading the actual condition of the temp, pressure, etc. The gauges in my old Ram are actual gauges that move with the changing condition of the oil pressure, engine temperature, etc. I do have a transmission temp idiot light, that so far only lights up when I start the truck. From what I have read, I hope the thing never lights up while driving as that means damage has likely already occurred. Wish I had a trans temp gauge instead.
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edited 11/04/09 08:34am by surveyorjp *
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firecapt1
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While I respect those who want to know the exact temperature or pressure in their systems, I believe that if you pay attention to your factory gauges all the time (like I do) you will notice a high or low reading in sufficient time to react and prevent damage or worse.
Again, an idiot light is no substitute for a gauge, of any kind. The key point is to know what is the normal range (on your gauge) and check it often while driving, especially under severe conditions (grades, high temps, towing, etc.). With constant monitoring you will know right away if something starts to go wrong.
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Dave H M
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lets get bsck to the OP here. I stated that my temp guage starts on cold and gradually increases as the engine warms up to operating temp.
So it doesn't spring from cold to a preset place on the dial. Address that issue please.
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surveyorjp
Missouri
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firecapt1 wrote:While I respect those who want to know the exact temperature or pressure in their systems, I believe that if you pay attention to your factory gauges all the time (like I do) you will notice a high or low reading in sufficient time to react and prevent damage or worse.
Again, an idiot light is no substitute for a gauge, of any kind. The key point is to know what is the normal range (on your gauge) and check it often while driving, especially under severe conditions (grades, high temps, towing, etc.). With constant monitoring you will know right away if something starts to go wrong.
But the main complaint against an "idiot gauge", is the fact that you may be running hot, but you won't know it until the engine reaches the high temp set point. By that time, are your heads warped? I don't know, I don't know what the set point temp is, do you? Some folks with the "idiot gauges" have commented that the fan is screaming, the truck is pulling a big hill with a big load, but that gauge still reads center of the normal range with no movement. Not very accurate, and not very comforting in my opinion.
When my engine temp is 200, the guage reads 200. As the temp increases or decreases, so does the reading on the gauge. Same with oil pressure, mine fluctuates with engine rpm. An "idiot gauge" may as well have an oil pressure light since the only thing the gauge is telling you is that the oil pump is working. You have no idea what the oil pressure is, just either you have oil pressure or you don't.
I have no idea what type of gauges you have in your newer Ford, but I know the gauges in the 99 Ford I drove for several years at work were of the "idiot" variety. Very inaccurate.
* This post was
edited 11/04/09 08:35am by surveyorjp *
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surveyorjp
Missouri
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Dave H M wrote:lets get bsck to the OP here. I stated that my temp guage starts on cold and gradually increases as the engine warms up to operating temp.
So it doesn't spring from cold to a preset place on the dial. Address that issue please.
I don't know Dave, maybe your gauge is a real guage and not an idiot version. Anyone out there know?
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edited 11/04/09 08:36am by surveyorjp *
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terrybk
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smkettner wrote:People call them idiot gauges because there is no movement in the normal zone. This keeps the idiots out of the dealership thinking something is wrong when the gauge moves up a bit on a hot day. I understand it will actually move higher when above normal as determined by Ford. Many people would like to see it move sooner. I am just fine with it.
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Exactly. The term "idiot gauge" has replaced "idiot light". The gauge moves up normally until the coolant is in the normal operating range and is then clamped so it doesn't move up until the temperature goes above a certainly temp. My 2000 Chevy guage is clamped just below 200F when the coolant is in the range of 192 to 221F. Once the temps go above that the gauge rises and is correct again.
While I prefer that it just track the temps, 221 (or even 230 for that matter) isn't a problem for the engine, just the owners. Heck, 250 is nothing but it's close to the point where recovering is iffy if the engine load isn't removed. Many people panic and assume impending doom at even 200 or 210 and hit the service department. I somewhat see why GM (and maybe the others) did it. The newer engines (post 80's) can handle dang high coolant temps and not blink. If I could run a 205 stat I would but there isn't one for my engine.
Now my trans gauge is linear with no clamping as is the oil pressure gauge.
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ib516
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Ford gauges are notoriously unresponsive. They do work, but they are calibrated to stay in the mid range unless the temps/pressure/readings are way beyond the middle level, then they will start to move. Their function is not linear.
Example - I am a LEO. I spend a lot of time in Ford Crown Victorias. The newest ones have two variable speed electric fans (vs the old ones which were single speed and either on or off). Start the car, it runs for 5 minutes, temp gauge is in middle of the NORMAL range. After a pursuit, both cooling fans screaming away running at full speed, temp gauge still in the middle of the NORMAL range where it was after 5 min of idling, it hasn't budged. It won't go anywhere near above middle of NORMAL until it is just shy of boiling over and dumping coolant on the ground.
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loufish
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Quote:lets get bsck to the OP here. I stated that my temp guage starts on cold and gradually increases as the engine warms up to operating temp.
So it doesn't spring from cold to a preset place on the dial. Address that issue please.
The temp gauge is real and should sweep according to coolant temp, HOWEVER the oil pressure is not, it has 2 positions, "0" and "1/2" way...the sending unit for the O/P is just a on/off switch...
Ford doesn't consider the O/Pressure gauge a gauge, rather it's a "Indicator"
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Yahooligan
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terrybk wrote:
Exactly. The term "idiot gauge" has replaced "idiot light". The gauge moves up normally until the coolant is in the normal operating range and is then clamped so it doesn't move up until the temperature goes above a certainly temp. My 2000 Chevy guage is clamped just below 200F when the coolant is in the range of 192 to 221F. Once the temps go above that the gauge rises and is correct again.
While I prefer that it just track the temps, 221 (or even 230 for that matter) isn't a problem for the engine, just the owners. Heck, 250 is nothing but it's close to the point where recovering is iffy if the engine load isn't removed. Many people panic and assume impending doom at even 200 or 210 and hit the service department. I somewhat see why GM (and maybe the others) did it. The newer engines (post 80's) can handle dang high coolant temps and not blink. If I could run a 205 stat I would but there isn't one for my engine.
Now my trans gauge is linear with no clamping as is the oil pressure gauge.
In the case of your 2000 Chevy, the gauge reading is controlled by the PCM. The ECT (Engine Coolant Temperature) sensor is a potentiometer (A kind of variable resistor). A modern "idiot gauge" if you will. I know you didn't say otherwise, I just wanted to explain the mechanics of it. With a scantool or other OBDII-capable device it's possible to see the actual coolant temp. The temp gauge in your truck isn't directly connected to the sensor in this case, it's the PCM that's telling it what it show.
A '97 Ford has a variable resistor, the gauge also controlled by the PCM. Also in the case of the '97 Ford, the oil pressure "sending unit" is simply an on/off switch that closes when there is more than 6psi of oil pressure, so by the time you see there's a problem it's already too late.
My truck with the OE 180F t-stat runs 190-193F all day long, a '98 Jeep I had would run 210F all day long. Some people that weren't used to that thought that was hot, but that was just the "ideal" operating temp for that engine.
Yes, the idiot gauge came along to curb customer worries and complaints, but the problem remains that, generally speaking, by the time things have gone wrong enough to trigger a warning it may be too late to really be able to take proper action and damage can result. If you're on a long uphill grade with no shoulder or turnouts and all of a sudden your gauge goes from "Normal" to "Hot" with no gradual indication of what's going on, you're stuffed. Are you going to just shut down right there in the middle of the road?
We're driving TRUCKS for goodness sake, they should have REAL gauges. Cars, minivans, etc who cares if they have an idiot gauge, they're not designed to be worked hard all the time. It's an insult to build a truck to work hard and not give drivers "properly" working gauges.
Imagine if the fuel gauge were an idiot gauge that either said "Normal" or "Low", how useful is that? You can't take preemptive action to stop or prevent a bad situation if you're not being presented with accurate data.
Sorry if I got off track here.  For what it's worth, on the subject of trans temp gauges such as mine that only has a "normal" range (With a needle that does move), that is helpful but not completely useful. ATF life drops dramatically as temps increase, for every 20F increase in temp above normal operating temp (Generally 170F) the life of the fluid is cut in half with the baseline life @ 175F being about 100,000 miles. Running at 195F cuts the life of the fluid to 50,000 miles. Another 20F means it's only good for 25,000 miles, and so on. Just because, for example, my trans may run at the upper end up "normal" doesn't mean everything's OK and the fluid is good for just as long as if it were running at the lower end of the spectrum. This is why knowing actual values is critical to me.
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Dave H M
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loufish
You gave a real "makes sense" answer. You know I will not take up issue on the oil pressure. It always jumps to the same spot and stays there. 
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