StreetRodderTom
South Western CT.
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Tried posting this in "Tech Issues" but to no avail so I'll give it a try here.
Is it advisable to permanently mount a Hughes Autoformer at the power panel in my PUP? I'm looking to eliminate the "Theft Factor" and also eliminate the multi plug connections on the power line. Your input would be appreciated. Yes I have the electrical ability.
Hope to see you on the road!!!
Soon to be retired Gunsmith (35+ years)
Wife is retired RN (VA Hospital 37 years)
2005 Starcraft Model 2409
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javaseuf
California's Gold Coast
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Joined: 03/30/2005
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Is an autoformer in a PUP really needed?
Does yours have sensitive 110-volt equipment that would be jeopardized in the case of power fluctuations?
I understand other RV's with 110-volt things like televisions, stereos and the such but in a pup, most, if not all, electrical items are 12-volts which wouldn't be affected by a 110-volt issue. The only exception I can think of is the 110-volt side of the refer and a roof-air if you have one.
Steve
2007 Springdale 291RKL
2009 F150, 5.4 ltr.
1986 Palomino Hard-Side PUP
"Nobody knows how we got to the top of the hill, but since we're on our way down, we might as well enjoy the ride". ("The Secret Of Life", James Taylor).
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cmartin7143
ILL
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Can not see a problem, and it would be how I would do it. The only problem I can see is the power cord. nothing is free. lower the volts you need more amps to run same equipment and every foot of cable lowers the volts. As Amps go up heating begins. Autoformers want to keep volts and amp output stable. to do this it must draw more from the source. so a higher rated cable may be needed. you would also have some minor heat gain in the coach from the transformer. Wire is wire be it yours or the CC it must be capable, without excessive loss to not overheat badly. good luck.
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StreetRodderTom
South Western CT.
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Sorry that I didn't list my reason in the original post but wanted to keep the bandwidth down. The main reason for the autoformer is that I do have A/C and don't want to be starting it on low voltage. Also have a refer. I realize that the A/C does have the booster in it but I still would like to have it start at 115 and not down around 105 or lower. That is the main reason for using it. We probably will have a small (19") flat screen TV & clock radio on board also. I also got the autoformer real cheap so it's one of those deals that if you have it you want a reason to use it? I'm aware of the feed line problem. The other main problem I want to avoid is the "theft" problem. "MOST" campers are of no concern but there is that small group of  individuals that I have to protect from!
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hwybnb
Southern California
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Joined: 05/02/2001
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The use of autoformers is prohibited in some parks because they cause problems on the local grid. An autoformer gives the user more power by robbing it from everyone else. If there are enough of them the grid goes down and nobody gets any power. Of course with one that is built in and concealed who is to know? If going against the rules does not bother you then there is nothing to stop you.
* This post was
edited 11/01/09 12:04pm by hwybnb *
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You can't take the Fisherman out of this Camper
Ontario, Canada
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hwybnb wrote:The use of autoformers is prohibited in some parks because they cause problems on the local grid. An autoformer gives the user more power by robbing it from everyone else. If there are enough of them the grid goes down and nobody gets any power. Of course with one that is built in and concealed who is to know? If going against the rules does not bother you then there is nothing to stop you. I disagree! Here's how autoformers really work:
Autoformers are used in industries to stabilize voltage and lower the operating cost of equipment. The Autoformer has 5 windings: 2 primary and 3 secondary. All models have surge and spike protection. When the unit is in Automatic and the park or input voltage is 116 volts or below, the output is 10% over the input. When the input is over 118 volts, the output is 2% over the input.
The Autoformer DOES NOT take power from the park.
It does not affect the park or input voltage, or make electricity.
What it is doing is changing the voltage - amperage relationship, lowering the amperage and raising the voltage. Since appliances run better on higher voltage, lower amperage, less overall power is used from the park, and better service is enjoyed from your RV
An Autoformer running at full output (50amps) will use 1 amp, but will cause appliances to cycle more often and run cooler. This will use less total power from the park.
I have added a separate connector and shore power cable to my fiver that lets me separate the A/C circuit from my regular power panel. My autoformer is set up right next to my propane tank in the side storage compartment of my trailer to which I have added a lock. It can't be seen by would be thieves and I put it in there when I arrive at a park where low voltage is a problem. It works very well and allows me to use my A/C unit when I would not be able to otherwise because of voltages in the 100 to 105 range. The notion that it affect other park users is an "internet myth" don't believe it.. it's just not true!!
* This post was
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edited 11/01/09 04:56pm by You can't take the Fisherman out of this Camper *
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1960's: Tents.. 1970's: Soft top & Hard top P/U.. 1980's: 17' RV.. 1990's: 24' RV.. 2000's: 2002 Cougar 276EFS & 2005 Laredo 29GS; 2002 GMC 2500HD Ext Cab 4x4; (Nfld/Labrador-Yukon/NWT/Alaska-Gaspe', Que./Florida!!)
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StreetRodderTom
South Western CT.
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Fisherman, thanks for your reply. I was trying to formulate a respectful answer but you have done a much better job. I "kind of" know how they work as I've used Sola Supplies in years past with OLD analog equipment that I used to service when I was a field service rep (Repairman) for Friden Inc. out of San Leandro, CA. I guess the point I really want to make is that I believe that these do not "cause" problems in the CG but they may show and existing underlaying problem that has always been there that the CG has failed to address.
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hwybnb
Southern California
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The Fisherman is incorrect.
Autoformers cannot manufacture power. The power in must equal the power out, less some small losses in the unit. When the autoformer increases the voltage on the output it draws more current on the input side.
Say the grid power is 105 volts. The output of the autoformer without correction is also 105 volts. Assume that the load is a simple resistor of 100 ohms. The power being used is 110.25 watts. The autoformer now boosts the voltage to 120. The power output increases to 144 watts. Where does that added power come from? It comes from increasing the current draw on the input side, thus "robbing" power from the rest of the grid. That is why they are not allowed in some parks and why if too many people use them it will crash the system. If you are an "its all about me" person you do not care because you know that you are probably the only one doing it and the system is not going down because of it. If you do not know enough engineering to understand the concept you will not believe what I say, and you will use the thing.
There is no free lunch.
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You can't take the Fisherman out of this Camper
Ontario, Canada
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StreetRodderTom wrote:Fisherman, thanks for your reply. I was trying to formulate a respectful answer but you have done a much better job. I "kind of" know how they work as I've used Sola Supplies in years past with OLD analog equipment that I used to service when I was a field service rep (Repairman) for Friden Inc. out of San Leandro, CA. I guess the point I really want to make is that I believe that these do not "cause" problems in the CG but they may show and existing underlaying problem that has always been there that the CG has failed to address.
Exactly! You're welcome!
We spend most of our summers at a private campground that has (2) 20 amp circuits on one receptacle at each site. The sites farthest from the building which houses the power panel have the lowest voltages. The wiring is undersized for the length of wire runs and the campground owner just does not want to spend the $ to upgrade. But we love the campground!
To hwybnb. If you read my post again you will see that I also said that the autoformer "does NOT make electricity"! Google "Hughes Autoformer" and you will see for yourself how these things work!
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Acampingwewillgo
Camarillo, CA
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hwybnb wrote:The use of autoformers is prohibited in some parks because they cause problems on the local grid. An autoformer gives the user more power by robbing it from everyone else. If there are enough of them the grid goes down and nobody gets any power. Of course with one that is built in and concealed who is to know? If going against the rules does not bother you then there is nothing to stop you.
I have an Autoformer which I really dont use that often BUT I have never been to a Campground that specifically prohibited them..... YET!
96 Vogue Prima Vista 37' 350/10.3 litre CAT 3176B, Webasto heat, Howard Steering, 10KW Power Tech.
Our Babies: Mollie and Rubie, rescued Cavalier King Charles Spaniels
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