trailertraveler
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Dolph wrote:Kirk,
Don't think that the 3 month volunteer is much of a threat.
On an individual basis regarding job competition, etc.; I would agree to a point. However, over the years, decreasing budgets have resulted in decreasing numbers of paid staff and increasing reliance on volunteers. I have heard upper management in both NPS and FWS tell managers that request more resources that "people will do these jobs for free, get more volunteers". As one who has been involved with both the NPS and FWS for over 30 years, I can say that jobs in campgrounds that were once done by paid employees are now done by volunteers. Trails that were maintained by paid employees are now maintained by volunteers. Visitor center information desks that were staffed by paid employees are now staffed by volunteers. The list goes on and on. Jobs that were once done by entry level or seasonal employees hoping for a permanent job are now often done by volunteers, the position eliminated and the funding cut. This situation has existed for much longer in the NPS and I believe has resulted in some ambivilance toward volunteers.
FWS refuges have never received the amount of funding that National Parks do. Most Refuges always ran on shoestring budgets. FWS is much newer to the volunteer arena and most are still appreciative of getting help anyway they can. In addition, most refuges have very limited facilities for resident volunteers which means far fewer volunteer personnel to manage and consequently less potential headaches in volunteer management.
Safe travels!
Trailertraveler
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Dolph
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Trailertraveler, Imagine this conversation, "Oh no, Kirk is here for 90days."Who is Kirk?" "He's this old guy that has volunteered for NPS AND FWS". "What is that to us?" "They will probably fire at least one of us". "But we are all GS9." "No matter, he has experience in Interp". "What about our other duties?" "No matter, he is good at Interp.
That is the point I was making. Other than that, I understand sinking budgets and the need to fill open vacancies with volunteers whenever possible.
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FedAgent
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I am a current Park Service volunteer and work at America's first, and in my humble opinion, the best park, Yellowstone. I have also been a volunteer for the U.S. Forest Service. Most of the negative comments that I have read above, I have not experienced. I am promptly informed in early January that I have a job for the summer, if I want it. I am treated very, very well, once I arrive at the park. I am issued an employee badge, given the employee tags for my vehicles, MH and toad, my uniforms from the last season are clean and pressed and given to me. I am repeatedly asked if there is anything they can do for me or get for me.
Everyone from the Park Superintendent down to the newest hire Ranger were very friendly and appreciative of the service of the volunteers at the Park. I frankly lost track of the number of times that I was told the Park Service could not manage without us. I liked working for the Forest Service, but I love working for the Park Service. And I really love working in Yellowstone. The only drawback is that it is difficult to get your foot in the door. The guy I replaced had held the position for about a dozen years. I promise to not be that selfish.
Larry
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FedAgent
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trailertraveler wrote:Dolph wrote:Kirk,
Don't think that the 3 month volunteer is much of a threat.
On an individual basis regarding job competition, etc.; I would agree to a point. However, over the years, decreasing budgets have resulted in decreasing numbers of paid staff and increasing reliance on volunteers. I have heard upper management in both NPS and FWS tell managers that request more resources that "people will do these jobs for free, get more volunteers". As one who has been involved with both the NPS and FWS for over 30 years, I can say that jobs in campgrounds that were once done by paid employees are now done by volunteers. Trails that were maintained by paid employees are now maintained by volunteers. Visitor center information desks that were staffed by paid employees are now staffed by volunteers. The list goes on and on. Jobs that were once done by entry level or seasonal employees hoping for a permanent job are now often done by volunteers, the position eliminated and the funding cut. This situation has existed for much longer in the NPS and I believe has resulted in some ambivilance toward volunteers.
FWS refuges have never received the amount of funding that National Parks do. Most Refuges always ran on shoestring budgets. FWS is much newer to the volunteer arena and most are still appreciative of getting help anyway they can. In addition, most refuges have very limited facilities for resident volunteers which means far fewer volunteer personnel to manage and consequently less potential headaches in volunteer management.
I respectfully disagree. Having been a volunteer for a few years, in my opinion, volunteers free up the staff do do more important functions. I know what the Ranger staff at Yellowstone is tasked with doing and it is overwhelming. I know for a fact that the "work" that I, and other volunteers do at the Park, frees up the Ranger staff to do more important functions. Why dispatch a Ranger to travel for 40 miles to free up an animal jam when a NPS volunteer is close by and can handle it quickly. Why tie up a Ranger for hours for a minor automobile accident when a "desk officer" can do the job. If I thought for a moment that my free work volunterring casued a staff person to lose their job or hours, I would not be there.
Larry
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DianneOK
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Quote:I respectfully disagree. Having been a volunteer for a few years, in my opinion, volunteers free up the staff do do more important functions. I know what the Ranger staff at Yellowstone is tasked with doing and it is overwhelming. I know for a fact that the "work" that I, and other volunteers do at the Park, frees up the Ranger staff to do more important functions. Why dispatch a Ranger to travel for 40 miles to free up an animal jam when a NPS volunteer is close by and can handle it quickly. Why tie up a Ranger for hours for a minor automobile accident when a "desk officer" can do the job. If I thought for a moment that my free work volunterring casued a staff person to lose their job or hours, I would not be there.
Larry
Having volunteered for Federal, State and County I can honestly agree 100% with this statement. I know of several places we volunteered that would have closed if not for volunteers. It was not physically possible for the rangers to do it all.
Volunteers are the lifeblood of many organizations.
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trailertraveler
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FedAgent wrote:
I respectfully disagree. Having been a volunteer for a few years, in my opinion, volunteers free up the staff to do more important functions. I know what the Ranger staff at Yellowstone is tasked with doing and it is overwhelming. I know for a fact that the "work" that I, and other volunteers do at the Park, frees up the Ranger staff to do more important functions. Why dispatch a Ranger to travel for 40 miles to free up an animal jam when a NPS volunteer is close by and can handle it quickly. Why tie up a Ranger for hours for a minor automobile accident when a "desk officer" can do the job. If I thought for a moment that my free work volunterring casued a staff person to lose their job or hours, I would not be there.
Larry
While I do not disagree, that volunteers provide valuable service and free Rangers for the more "important" tasks. Who do you think did the "work" before the current volunteer programs were initiated? It was the seasonal and entry level paid employees. I know, because I was one of them in Yellowstone. There were no camphosts. We collected the fee envelopes, tracked down diliquent campers, directed traffic at wildlife jams, staffed the visitor information counters, maintained trails and did many many other tasks that are now done by volunteers. Seasonal employees were often the source for entry level job applicants. Now, students and others interested in a career in Parks and Refuges are often encouraged to volunteer to enhance their resume and gain experience in hopes of getting a career position. I know because I made this very pitch hundreds of times.
If you look at the Park Service's own records of staffing levels, I think you will find that most have vacancies that they can not fill because of budget constraints and many are likely at all time low staffing levels. Which was the point I was trying to make in my previous post. If you think that this does not affect the morale and attitude of some employees, I disagree.
DianneOK wrote:
Having volunteered for Federal, State and County I can honestly agree 100% with this statement. I know of several places we volunteered that would have closed if not for volunteers. It was not physically possible for the rangers to do it all.
Volunteers are the lifeblood of many organizations.
Exactly my point! This is true now for many Federal facilities because of all the budget cuts, staff downsizing, and unfilled vacancies. Managers have had to rely more and more on volunteers because they do not get sufficient funds to operate their facilities. Despite the efforts of volunteers, I know of some Federal facilities that have been closed or reduced to caretaker status and even activities conducted by volunteers ended.
* This post was
edited 10/03/09 10:25am by trailertraveler *
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jlawless
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traveltrailer wrote:many are likely at all time low staffing levels
That is so true and it is obvious to me that all public lands are replacing paid workers with volunteers.
As for the National Wildlife Refuge System I can only say our experience was terrible because the "volunteer coordinator" repeatedly lied to us before we arrived and then left his position a few weeks after we arrived. We decided to leave that position soon afterward for a variety of reasons related to his unkept assurances.
However, we have successfully volunteered with a variety of State Parks with generally good results but turnover of the employees can be a problem. For example, the Ranger who hires you in January may not be the person that you work with in the summer or there may not be a replacement yet when you arrive.
Recently we worked with a State Fish and Game Department and it was the best. We would like to try the NPS but the one position (Wonder Lake, Denali) we really wanted the lady has been there 20 years. She did it with her husband 18 years until he died. We thought we had a chance then but she keeps coming back by herself. God Love her.
"Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it is time to reform."
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FedAgent
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Tailertraveler, thank you for your reply. I see your point about who has to get work done at federal/state/local facilities. I think we can go back several years when Parks, like Yellowstone, were tasked with a mission of "entertaining" more and more tourons on a budget that did not match the increased numbers. You most likely will agree with me when I say the America is going to love our Parks, like YNP to death. The roads, structures and infrastructures are failing and are in need of a major cash infusion. When this policy of doing more with less started for the NPS and USFS, I am not sure, but it is a long time prior to my desire to step to the plate and help. I love our National Parks and most of our Forest Service land and feel privileged to be of some help. I enjoy them to the extent, that in the case of Yellowstone, if I was the Park Superintendent, I would limit the number of people that are able to go into the park on any give day. There is a limit of snowmobiles in winter, there should be a limit on vehicles in general, in the summer as well. Anyway, I don't know who made the decision on who should get the work done, volunteers or paid staff, but I do know that without folks like me that enjoy/love of NPS areas, the Parks would quickly fall on hard times.
Larry
* This post was
edited 10/06/09 01:49pm by FedAgent *
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Kirk
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FedAgent,
I agree with some parts what both you and trailertraveler say, but neither one is really addressing what my point was. We have now volunteered 12 times on national wildlife refuges and four in national parks. My observation was not to say what is the case, but rather it is how the culture of the agency is. I was only speculating as to why, but I assure you that the USFWS employees as a group treat the resident volunteers much more as equals and give us far more authority than does the NPS. We have enjoyed both but have a preference for refuges. I was only guessing as to the reasons.
It is a fact that budget constraints play a major part in the staffing of all federal agencies, and job security most likely plays a part in attitudes in our parks, just as it would for any of us in our workplaces.
There is also another phenomena in the National Parks that I find to be very interesting, and to a lesser extent in other federal agencies with parks. That is the fact that many of the positions which were once filled by permanent employees are now being filled by seasonal or temporary employees who receive less pay and no benefits. Seasonal rangers and LE's are now commonplace in the busier parks and on some refuges as well. I know very well one retired person who works as a seasonal ranger each summer in Yellowstone NP and each winter in Everglades NP. He has benefits from his previous position and like we volunteers he loves what he does and is good at it. But there is no question that he, like virtually thousands of others, is working for the same government who is now pushing to get everyone on health coverage and is receiving none at all. There are hundreds, if not thousands of interp and law enforcement park rangers who move from one park to the next to stay in their profession, gaining no retirement, health care, or any other kind of benefit. The vast majority of them are not retired from some other career as my friend and I are.
That too is damaging to the career ranger, as much or more than are the services of we who volunteer. While I do love what we do, I also feel real empathy for those who are trying to make a career in service of the parks.
Even so, I will still show preference to the agency that treats me the best, regardless of the reason that it is true. And I will match my record of experience that I base these opinions on to that of any person. We have just completed the 27th tour of volunteer for site work in our ten years of living this way. It is truly a great way to live.
Good travelin! ........Kirk
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sasha_j
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Some great points here by Kirk, Fed Agent, jlawless and trailertraveler.
I just finished up a 3 month volunteer stint here at Cape Hatteras National Seashore, in the Maintenance department. My Wife Laura is a seasonal Interprative Ranger here and her stint finishes next week.
In my capacity here as park maintenance volunteer, I personally transformed the Park's entrance from the disaster that it was to a very nice one you see here.
I scraped the curbs, painted them "traffic yellow". I painted the white picket fencing. I weed whacked/mowed the grass, and I was part of the crew that replaced the old, faded, vandalized sign with the new one you see here. I must say it is satisfying to help out the NPS.
I did not get a sense that any paid maintenance staff viewed me as competition. If anything, my time here made their lives far, far easier this summer as I took some workload off their shoulders. Many of the staff and some of the LE's personally took me aside to thank me for my work.
I will say this. Here at CAHA, free RV sites normally require a couple to BOTH work 32 hrs/ week and I feel this is excessive and unfair. I got a special deal as my wife is a paid seasonal. We got the FHU site just based on my 32/week alone, but this was an exemption to the rules here. If we were both volunteers here, we would not accept this assignment for both of us working 32 hrs/ week.
This park makes major use of seasonal hires and I feel for many of them as they get no benefits and the hiring and re-hiring procedures seem to be, from my perspective at least, to arbitrary. Many of the folks that have a deep commitment to the park and it's visitor's don't seem to get re-hired here.
We are off to points west soon, next week.
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