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RE: front living qtrs
Over the years 2000-2006, Montana, CedarCreek/Cardinal, KOTR, Grand Junction Alumascape all built front living room rigs. We LOVED them from the very first time we walked into an alumascape. By the time we were ready to buy they discontinued the floor plan. You either love them or hate them. I see Keystone refined their old 3455FL and 3685FL front living plans with this latest one by fully enclosing the bathroom, adding a second slide to the bedroom. But why do they still have the oven and microwave stuffed in the corner. Idiots. Then again, it's a Keystone so I likely would not buy it just because it is a Thor/Keystone product.
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Turd Herder
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02/26/10 05:35am |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Dropped it!
Don't feel bad. My Eagle pulled out of the superglide because the trailer was a bit too high resulting in a false connection. Good thing I was going 3mph when it came off instead of on the high way. Pretzeled my tailgate and a slight wow in the driver side bed rail.
We were very fortunate.
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Turd Herder
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11/05/09 07:38pm |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Jayco Owners
Another thumbs up for Jayco. As stated here before, we literally walked in hundreds of rigs at dealers, rv shows, private sellers looking at multitudes of different floor plans, manufacturers etc. and we were most comfortable with parting with a lot of money for our 345BHS.
Our warranty is up April 2010 so I just dropped it off at the dealer with a 10 item list of very basic stuff, mostly issues related to interior finish systems. Also, Jaycos factory rep Sherlin Miller is always at shows ready to talk, discuss and spend time with us even after we've already bought. No rush, no BS, no lies. That is something I never experienced with other factory reps at shows.
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Turd Herder
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11/01/09 06:55pm |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: How many of us are waiting for the SOLD sign?
I've been on the market since February and just recently turned the listing over to a professional team in my office. Being a realtor... and a seller... I understand the pain from both sides of the fence. I'm losing money...pure and simple. And not just a few thousand. Many, many thousands. I will be lucky in comparison to some others I know of...I won't be bringing $40,000 to the closing table or more. Assuming I eventually GET a contract and to the closing table!!!
To the poster who "laughs with glee"... I had to cringe because there are a lot of people who have been badly damaged through no fault of their own. It isn't pretty and is certainly not laughable. Even some very wealthy people were brutally hurt by financial losses. DH met a very elderly woman who was working at a front desk somewhere. He joked with her about working at her age and she said "Bernie Madoff". She was losing her home. The people who might actually deserve scorn are not the ones being hurt. Wall Street is doing fine... it's Main Street that still suffers. I do not feel any glee toward anyone's misfortune. And...BTW...I did NOT participate in all the banking programs that landed so many in misery. I refused to drink that koolaid.
That being said... the market is what it is. Price means everything these days. I continue to be amazed as the housing market goes through its' contortions. It is fine to talk to your banker about value...but be aware that new laws took effect this summer and bankers can't talk to or use their favorite appraisers now. Verboten. That's why appraisals have started to get nuts. You are more likely to get an appraiser who's from an "appraisal farm" and doesn't know your area from a hole in the ground. And...they may only be a "note taker" and take info back to the "real" appraiser who never sees your home. My home is now below 2005 values. I will be grateful to be out from under the expense of owning it and very happy to be able to just move on with life. The poster who said we lose sight of our most precious asset...our time and life... is spot on. I don't want to waste any more heartbeats.
Too all who have sold their homes and are at last free...Much Joy to you and CONGRATULATIONS!!!! To those still waiting... crunch your numbers and decide what it is that's truly important to you and then have a very serious discussion with your realtor. Don't wait around. Finally...take a deep breath and keep moving on. Good luck.
cts
"I had to cringe because there are a lot of people who have been badly damaged through no fault of their own."
No fault of their own? The fact that they believed the lie that their house was somehow magically worth 200%-300% more than it really is? Look.... housing prices don't double and triple EVER. Housing prices were flatter than a pancake from 1890-1999 and all of a sudden they triple and people think it's real???? I have no sympathy for people who think a primary residence is somehow an "investment" and are somehow "owed" a grossly inflated amount for something everyone knows deep down isn't worth a fraction of the fantasy asking price.
Housing prices have a long long way to fall and it as a "realtor", you should step up to the ethics your organization claims to hold high and tell the public the truth about this. You know it, I know it.
Wow. TH...I'm not sure where to start with you. You appear to have a tremendous amount of anger and frustration, and I have to wonder... were you or a loved one involved in a real estate transaction that went wrong? As for me stepping up to the ethics standards of the NAR, while those standards are high...I adhere to a higher level of ethics and accountability. I once had a broker tell me that I was too honest to ever make good money. That has proven to be true so I won't take offense from your words.
As for the current housing bubble/crash...many factors played into this. Some factors were well intentioned...making it easier for people to buy homes when in fact those people were not genuinely qualified to be able to keep making the payments. Buyers were encouraged to buy as much house as they could afford...even if it meant eating hotdogs everyday. I often said this was wrong...and indeed would prove to be harmful. But...as long as there was money to be made, people ran with it. It did me no good to explain to buyers that they should buy less house than what they qualified for. They went to other realtors who wouldn't "preach" to them.
Other factors...financial competitors had to come up with "new and improved" programs to attract buyers. Mortgages have to be backed up by investors who are willing to accept a certain amount of risk. Mortgage brokers make a percentage off the deals they put together. Everyone all up and down the real estate food chain has a piece of the pie. Appraisers, mortgage brokers, closers, title companies, surveyors, tax examiners, developers, builders and realtors. All of these fees and costs are annoying to buyers and sellers...especially sellers... but it's a cost of doing business and it keeps food on the table and the lights on for a lot of people. In addition to that...a lot of states have transfer fees... you get taxed on the size of your mortgage and taxed on the sale price the house. It's double taxation...but most people aren't aware of that and don't even question it. It wasn't just the "industrial realestate complex", but government involvement as well. As property values rose so did the tax base.
As for "the truth" that home prices have a lot lower to go... I do NOT know that. I don't have a crystal ball. I suspect that in certain areas of the country that may be the case... and that is a function of economic realities of the regions. That...has always been the enduring truth of real estate. If you have more demand for an area...the price goes up. If the demand falls...so does the price. In the current economic reality...demand is down. A lot of People have lost their jobs and those that do have jobs and money are cautious.
That being said... while there are people who bought homes betting on the increase...essentially gamblers... who are caught holding the bag...there are many more who did it the "old fashioned way". They worked, they saved, they put high down payments on their homes and paid their taxes. They lived in their homes a long time and kept them up. Then a medical problem got them, a job loss got them, a divorce or death got them. Or...an unscrupulous money manager cheated them. They were/are hardworking people who always believed that if they did right they would be done right by others.
Did some of them believe wrongly? Probably. Do they deserve to be laughed at? No. Again...the ones who deserve scorn and punishment are not feeling the pain. It's your neighbor down the street who's maxing out their last credit card (another industrial complex!!) to make ends meet. It's the neighbor whose 401k became a 201 or 101k because the trustee invested in the wrong place. It's the retiree who's had to go back to work because their retirement fund fell apart or their pensions have been trashed by corporate greed and "restructuring".
It's fine to be angry...heck...I AM REALLY ANGRY...about it. I warned about this kind of thing starting TEN years ago. But I won't take pleasure in the misery of others. As a realtor...I make my views known to the political action committees of all the organizations I belong to. I am also well aware of the widely held view that all realtors are money hungry shysters. All I can say to that is...are there bad apples? Yes...all institutions and organizations have them. We try to weed them out. If anyone has a complaint against a realtor...there are venues to be heard and you should pursue it.
As for the new appraisal laws...while these were well intentioned laws designed to protect the public...the implementation has proven to be problematic. Bankers can no longer choose or speak to an appraiser. Appraisal "farms" have sprung up..essentially clearing houses for appraisers. An order comes in and an appraiser is notified to go. I have heard so many horror stories... the wrong house got appraised and the appraiser says it wouldn't have made a difference anyway.... one appraiser says a house is worth 30k less than what one appraiser said a week ago or vice versa. Once again, good intentions did not work out the way it was supposed to.
I am certainly in favor of a fair... true arms length...contract and appraisal. I am in favor of getting rid of the greed and corruption wherever it is found. If a plan is put into place and it is found to be flawed...it needs to be abandoned or modified.
Things have changed...are changing. People have the responsibility to really read and understand what they are signing. If that means getting an attorney to review the contract...by all means do it. I've used attorney's in my own personal transactions...and I am familiar with the contracts!!
Well, pardon the long winded post. This is a profession I have long loved and enjoyed. It is with deep sorrow that I see so many wounded. That's why I say really crunch your numbers. Decide what is the most important to YOU. Don't waste your heartbeats...find the best way possible and move on to what's best for you.
cts
And here's a perfect example why the reputation of the house sales "profession"(not that there is anything professional about it)has fallen to the level of deep sea shells. House salesman are always the first to deny that prices are falling.... and make no mistake about it, they're falling and there is no bottom. And to make matters worse, whenever they're called out on their shenanigans, their excuse is always some airy fairy, unquantifiable nonsense which is part and parcel of the sales technique too.
If you actually adhered to your seemingly indignation of the entire house sales market, I would have found posts indicating such on this forum. What I did find? More unquantifiable, speculative, mamby pamby realtor talk.
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Turd Herder
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10/23/09 11:12am |
Full-time RVing
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RE: How many of us are waiting for the SOLD sign?
Covetthesun: Thanks for the info explaining the changes in the appraisal process. My realtor had explained it to me also. Are these requirements for appraisers throughout the nation or just MO? My realtor also said that the appraisal is good for six months and that appraisers are nervous because of these new guidelines so appraisals are coming out very low. While I understand that the over appraisal of properties is part of the problem in the downfall of the economy, under appraising is not going to get the economy back on it's feet. When your house has to be comped to short sales and foreclosures a true appraisal IMHO isn't possible.
The new appraisal rules are called HVCC. The realtor industrial complex lobbied hard and offered bribes to deep six HVCC.
The reality is that short sales and foreclosures ARE real, factual comps. Foreclosure transactions and short sales are considered arms length transactions and reflect the real value of housing, not the grossly inflated happy land prices used house salesmen would have you believe.
Think of it this way..... When I can build for $50/sqft and make money, what makes one think that a resale house is worth more than a fraction of that number?
Keep in mind it was the grossly inflated housing prices of 2000-2006 that put us in the mess we're in right now. High housing prices aren't good for anyone and I think people are beginning to come to grips with this fact. Essentially, we had a housing finance system that ran like a swiss watch for 50 years. Prices were flat, affordable and do-able for nearly everyone. Once the commercial banks were allowed to lend in 1999, the entire housing finance system came apart.
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Turd Herder
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10/22/09 06:58pm |
Full-time RVing
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RE: How many of us are waiting for the SOLD sign?
I've been on the market since February and just recently turned the listing over to a professional team in my office. Being a realtor... and a seller... I understand the pain from both sides of the fence. I'm losing money...pure and simple. And not just a few thousand. Many, many thousands. I will be lucky in comparison to some others I know of...I won't be bringing $40,000 to the closing table or more. Assuming I eventually GET a contract and to the closing table!!!
To the poster who "laughs with glee"... I had to cringe because there are a lot of people who have been badly damaged through no fault of their own. It isn't pretty and is certainly not laughable. Even some very wealthy people were brutally hurt by financial losses. DH met a very elderly woman who was working at a front desk somewhere. He joked with her about working at her age and she said "Bernie Madoff". She was losing her home. The people who might actually deserve scorn are not the ones being hurt. Wall Street is doing fine... it's Main Street that still suffers. I do not feel any glee toward anyone's misfortune. And...BTW...I did NOT participate in all the banking programs that landed so many in misery. I refused to drink that koolaid.
That being said... the market is what it is. Price means everything these days. I continue to be amazed as the housing market goes through its' contortions. It is fine to talk to your banker about value...but be aware that new laws took effect this summer and bankers can't talk to or use their favorite appraisers now. Verboten. That's why appraisals have started to get nuts. You are more likely to get an appraiser who's from an "appraisal farm" and doesn't know your area from a hole in the ground. And...they may only be a "note taker" and take info back to the "real" appraiser who never sees your home. My home is now below 2005 values. I will be grateful to be out from under the expense of owning it and very happy to be able to just move on with life. The poster who said we lose sight of our most precious asset...our time and life... is spot on. I don't want to waste any more heartbeats.
Too all who have sold their homes and are at last free...Much Joy to you and CONGRATULATIONS!!!! To those still waiting... crunch your numbers and decide what it is that's truly important to you and then have a very serious discussion with your realtor. Don't wait around. Finally...take a deep breath and keep moving on. Good luck.
cts
"I had to cringe because there are a lot of people who have been badly damaged through no fault of their own."
No fault of their own? The fact that they believed the lie that their house was somehow magically worth 200%-300% more than it really is? Look.... housing prices don't double and triple EVER. Housing prices were flatter than a pancake from 1890-1999 and all of a sudden they triple and people think it's real???? I have no sympathy for people who think a primary residence is somehow an "investment" and are somehow "owed" a grossly inflated amount for something everyone knows deep down isn't worth a fraction of the fantasy asking price.
Housing prices have a long long way to fall and it as a "realtor", you should step up to the ethics your organization claims to hold high and tell the public the truth about this. You know it, I know it.
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Turd Herder
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10/22/09 10:35am |
Full-time RVing
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RE: How many of us are waiting for the SOLD sign?
When you are already below the appraisal, then what give it away! I think not!
We have decided to keep it and just manage with our 20 year old rv. It needs some work, no much, but I like it so we are on the road anyway!!!!
My daughter is living in the house because I don't want to rent it or leave it empty. So everything is working out anyway.
This flawed and failed madness called "I'm not gonna give it away" has really distorted reality. What is it about people who are otherwise normal in all other aspects come so completely detached from reality and toss that absurd statement around? The statement is ignorantly abrasive and completely un-hinged from economic fundamentals. "Giving it away" explicitly states a price of less than one cent.
Aside from that, I laugh with glee when I hear people can't offload their overpriced shack on some sucker at a grossly inflated price. The bubble years 2000-2007 were rife with fraud, deception and greed and guess what????? They're not coming back. Not in our lifetimes.
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Turd Herder
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10/21/09 03:54pm |
Full-time RVing
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RE: How many of us are waiting for the SOLD sign?
How to price your home- call a local bank and ask the loan officer for the name of the appraiser they use. Get an appraisal done and be sure to tell him you want a honest real value bank appraisal. Then you'll have a real idea of what it's worth in today's market and you can price it right, put out a copy of the appraisal for potential buyers to see and stop fooling around.
Correct. You may have to approach the bank and let them know you want a line of credit to get the bank to do the appraisal.
Warning- You're not going to like what the appraiser comes up with if you're convinced a house is an "investment".
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Turd Herder
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10/20/09 06:05pm |
Full-time RVing
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RE: How many of us are waiting for the SOLD sign?
You folks who can't sell need to lower your price. And I don't mean a measly $4k-5k.
If you don't get what you can get today, it's going to be alot less tomorrow for many many years, likely decades. This idea of "taking it off the market and putting it back on next spring" is nothing more than kicking the can down the road. This issue is PRICE. If it's not selling, it's clearly overpriced and has nothing to do with the season, the color and all the other lame excuses throw around by real estate agents.
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Turd Herder
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10/19/09 06:35pm |
Full-time RVing
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RE: Fridge Fan Install Wire Question
I have a Norcold, like above poster, no door switch but lite is activated by magnet. I have power on one side of the light when the door is open (for the light, that is a good thing) I have power on the other side of the buld that is hot when the door is shut (that is good for the fan) but, that side stays hot when the fridge is powered off? I am stumped! Anyone have any ideas?
I have the same issue, same fridge.
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Turd Herder
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06/28/09 12:58pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Our First Fiver
Congrats!! We pick our new and first 5er yesterday. It is Jayco 31.5FBHS. I didn't get a chance to take pictures and it is now in storage. First trip is Memorial weekend. Enjoy your new 5er.
Can't go wrong with Jayco Eagles.
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Turd Herder
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05/17/09 05:54pm |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Got a Jayco question--Eagle and Designer
I'd have bought a Designer if it had a bunkhouse. Got the Eagle 345BHS instead. Either way, I was sold on Jayco after looking at hundreds(literally) of rigs.
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Turd Herder
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05/17/09 05:50pm |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: How many of us are waiting for the SOLD sign?
Real estate has ALWAYS been cyclical since the 1800's....it WILL come back. Not by any means back to the inflated prices of 05 and 06 but it will come back.
Indeed it will be back but not in the way that most want to believe. In fact I think it's coming back as we speak, however, the prices will continue to fall to a level far below where they are right now. It's not a matter of duration but it is a matter of depth. For instance, California and Florida sales volume is up marginally but only at 50-60% lower than the grossly inflated prices of 2006. Now look at New York.... Sales are siezed up for one simple reason.... the grossly inflated prices. NY is where CA and FL was 18 months ago and we already know what happened in CA and FL..... It's simple... as prices fall, sales go up. I assert CA and FL still have more price declines. Areas where sales volume is seized up haven't even begun their price declines.
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Turd Herder
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04/30/09 04:34pm |
Full-time RVing
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RE: How many of us are waiting for the SOLD sign?
Home sales in East Texas are still going strong. People are being more selective and a house might sit for a little longer but people are buying.
That's an interesting assertion. All the data indicates sales volume and prices in Texas is declining quite rapidly.
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/construction_housing/housing_sales.html
Or on the other side of the coin -
Beaumont, Tx - sales are up that's southeast Tx :B
Take a look at the data a little closer. The increase in sales is from Feb09 to Mar09 which is seasonal... very typical. Now look at the traditionally measured sales which is comparing Mar09 to Mar08... sales are down an eye popping 30%.
We're still in the third inning of the housing debacle. And note that prices hit bottom 4 to 6 years AFTER the bottom in sales.... and we're not even at the bottom of sales yet.
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Turd Herder
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04/27/09 06:50pm |
Full-time RVing
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RE: My Jayco experience
Let me tell you about my experience...
The wife and I walked, inspected and felt hundreds, very possibly over one thousand 5vers over 3 years. We went to shows, dealers, looked at used floorplans that are no longer manufactured, talked to hundreds of salesmen, owners and repair facilities and ultimately went with Jayco for a variety of reasons and I can assure you, I don't part with my $$$ quickly or without forethought. I never saw a flawless 5ver.... not once. Every single one had some type of imperfection, etc but it was Jayco that appeared to have the fewest. I would by a Jayco 5ver again with little hesitation. Don't confuse my confidence with blind loyalty because I would put the dealer and salesmen through hell (again) on my next Jayco. It took alot to make the sale as I kept stringing the salesmen along for a good 18 months. In the end, it was floorplan and value..... It was what I got for the money.
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Turd Herder
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04/26/09 08:46am |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: How many of us are waiting for the SOLD sign?
Home sales in East Texas are still going strong. People are being more selective and a house might sit for a little longer but people are buying.
That's an interesting assertion. All the data indicates sales volume and prices in Texas is declining quite rapidly.
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/construction_housing/housing_sales.html
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Turd Herder
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04/21/09 01:12pm |
Full-time RVing
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RE: How many of us are waiting for the SOLD sign?
Not that it's a good thing, but here people who buy (and there are people buying again)
Lets temper that little statement with some truth.
People are buying again, in much lower numbers, at a much lower price.
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Turd Herder
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04/19/09 12:14pm |
Full-time RVing
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RE: How many of us are waiting for the SOLD sign?
A little perspective -
In 1928 the median income was $6078, the average house cost $7333
Personal figure -1972, bought a small but nice house in the Los Angeles area for $20,000 at the time I was making around $18,000
Now move up to 2007 average earning was around $20/hr ($40,000/year) for all workers and the average cost of a house was $249,000 or 6 times the yearly average wage.
If you do the math - even with 20% down you end up with 249000-49800=199200 (anyone know someone making 40k a year you can save up $49800??). A 30 year mortgage on 200,000 @ 6% would be $1199 without taxes and insurance. Let's be conservative - $2400/year for taxes and insurance (most people wish) and you have $16,788 a year for house payments. 40,000-16,788 leaves 23,212 for food, gas, taxes and all the rest. The numbers just don't work. That payment needs to get down to around $10,000 a year before someone can afford a house. That means that the median price of a house is going to have to drop to 1/2 that or wages are going to have to double for people to buy houses again.
Exactly... You're a voice of reason. And your very last sentence nails it; And I'll bet housing prices fall at least by half before wages ever double. To the contrary, wages are down between 2000 and 2007 which is all the more reason housing prices will collapse to an affordable level.
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Turd Herder
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04/17/09 02:21pm |
Full-time RVing
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RE: How many of us are waiting for the SOLD sign?
"Giving it away" means a number less than 1 cent. Only you are suggesting that. However, if you're counting on year 2005 prices, you're going to be waiting a long time. Prices everywhere are rolling back to early 1990's level to match real valuations, not some fantasy number.
Actually I think giving it away means selling it for less than you owe on it or just bailing out for what you owe, either way you net nothing and so gave it away.
I think prices depend on the area, and unemployment in the area probably plays a big role in it, but in Palm Bay, Fl, which was hit very hard by the decline prices have adjusted back to early 2000 prices not early 90's. Most people who bought there in the 90's or real early 2000's are able to walk away with a small profit. Anyone who bought after that is going to have to keep it a very long time, or give it away.
sfprop - we discussed renting awhile back in this thread - it can work but it can also turn into your worst nightmare. Being a landlord, especially a long distance landlord has a lot of perils and is as likely to create negative cash flow as it is positive cash flow. JMHO (but based on experience)
Given the fact that inflation adjusted housing prices were flatter than a pancake for over 100 years from 1890 to about 1998 when all this nonsense started, it really takes some arrogant self-entitlement to expect to "profit" off a traditionally depreciating item like a house. Make no mistake about it, those absurdly inflated prices of 2001-2008 will never be seen again in our lifetimes. It was an aberration... a distortion in the market that drove them up, not fundamentals. And it is most certainly fundamentals that will put them back where they ought to be. And that price is far lower than the current fantasy prices. If you need anymore evidence that housing is over priced, take a look at the skyrocketing inventory and number of for sale signs.
The delusion that a house is going to finance early retirement in shangri-la was just that..... a delusion.
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Turd Herder
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04/16/09 03:20pm |
Full-time RVing
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RE: fifth wheel hitch installer in Hudson valley NY
Fishbarned... there is a CamperBarn shop not far from you in Poughquag.... It's on route 55 about a mile past stop and shop.
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Turd Herder
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04/14/09 10:22am |
Fifth-Wheels
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